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Thread: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    If they want to vote that way fine, but I do not think they are in any position in the next decade or so to become member of Nato. They are not politically stable, have individuals of highly dubious character in positions of power and the country is in an internal civil war/conflict. All of these things make them a country that is not nato worthy.
    What i want to see are more "Made in Ukraine" products on the shelves.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It will be interesting to see the effect this will have on the situation in eastern Ukraine. I suspect the Russians will become more aggressive there as a result. Of course it will mean Russians will play very hard ball with respect to energy supplies and Ukrainian exports to Russia. Here we go. Will Victoria Nuland go down in history as having instigated the events that led to a nuclear conflict between the US and Russia?

    Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO
    What the Ukraine needs is open markets and free trade. Let's do it.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What i want to see are more "Made in Ukraine" products on the shelves.
    I am not, not feeling a whole lot of love towards Ukraine, not even in the peace on earth time of the year.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    One of the myriad NATO membership requirements is that the petitioning state not be involved in a territorial dispute.
    To expand on this:

    Study on NATO Enlargement

    6. States which have ethnic disputes or external territorial disputes, including irredentist claims, or internal jurisdictional disputes must settle those disputes by peaceful means in accordance with OSCE principles. Resolution of such disputes would be a factor in determining whether to invite a state to join the Alliance.
    This is the NATO membership policy that Putin overtly perverts. Purposeful destabilization is accomplished via Russian GRU/FSB intelligence operations and military incursions that have occurred in prospective NATO members Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The Russian paratroopers captured in Ukraine is but one example. I suggest you peruse the pertinent Ukraine threads in the Europe forum.


    The 4 November 2014 illegal rebel referendum violated the Minsk Agreement (signed by the rebels) and has not been been recognized any nation including Russia.

    All nations, including Russia, have recognized the national Ukrainian elections held on 26 October 2014.


    This is not about American actions. Stay on-topic please.


    33 nations have imposed sanctions and 100 UN nations resolved not to recognize Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea.
    OK, I get it. In this game we observe from the other side of the Atlantic, this game between NATO and Russia, we must focus only on Russia whilst ignoring the actions or history of the other player.

    Got it, you like a very biased perspective.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Got it, you like a very biased perspective.
    Everything in my post is factual. You've got Google. Use it.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    I am not, not feeling a whole lot of love towards Ukraine, not even in the peace on earth time of the year.
    Oh, I am not proposing this, because I am sympathetic towards the Ukrainians. The ones I have met were almost like the Russians I have known. But that is hardly the point. A stable country in Europe is better than a one in civil war or even one in disarray. The EU cannot handle that and we could easily see another war. We do not need that.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Why is it a dangerous path? Because Putin doesn't approve?
    Diplomacy is the art of compromise. Compromise means that the parties involved give up some of what they approve of so that others will do some things that they do not approve of that you want them to do. That is the way mature adults behave because it is obvious that no one can have everything they want all of the time. Sometimes they have to do things that they don't want to do. In international relations, Russia cannot have all of what it wants, neither can the United States. To think that if a party cannot get what it wants in international relations that it is necessarily weak is childish. To put forward the notion that we respect the vital concerns of a nuclear armed power, that has the capability to destroy the US as we know it in less than an hour, is not necessarily giving Putin what he wants, it is an acknowledgement of the reality of the world as it is, not as we want it to be in which the US can do whatever it wants whenever it wants without putting itself in a dangerous position. In other words, to answer your question, it is a dangerous path because it has the potential to provoke a nuclear confrontation with Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    If that is the case then you really don't think Ukraine has the right to decide it's own future and that Putin has the right to interfere in another countries foreign policy. Sorry you cant have it both ways.
    I'm sorry, you can't say that only the US has the right to interfere in another country's foreign policy, especially since Ukraine is a vital interest of Russia. Yes Russia has interfered in Ukraine's foreign policy, but so has the US.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 12-27-14 at 02:35 PM.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    If they want to vote that way fine, but I do not think they are in any position in the next decade or so to become member of Nato. They are not politically stable, have individuals of highly dubious character in positions of power and the country is in an internal civil war/conflict. All of these things make them a country that is not nato worthy.
    If they want to vote to join NATO, they can do that, but it is not fine. It is even worse if NATO accepts.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What the Ukraine needs is open markets and free trade. Let's do it.
    What Ukraine needs is leadership that understands the world and can put things in proper perspective.

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