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Thread: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If China and India want Russia to remain strong, then they have an interest in convincing Putin to get out of the Ukraine, too.
    They don't want them to be strong, in the the sense of what Putin was trying to accomplish with his Eurasian union because quite frankly both China and India have problems with Russia as well. They just want them on life support, enough to keep them around as a counterweight to US power. That way, they can leverage Russia's weak position to their advantage. Take for example the recent 400 billion dollar energy deal Russia signed recently with China. It is my understanding that China got a very very good deal on the energy, because Russia, quite frankly, badly needs the money.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    They don't want them to be strong, in the the sense of what Putin was trying to accomplish with his Eurasian union because quite frankly both China and India have problems with Russia as well. They just want them on life support, enough to keep them around as a counterweight to US power. That way, they can leverage Russia's weak position to their advantage. Take for example the recent 400 billion dollar energy deal Russia signed recently with China. It is my understanding that China got a very very good deal on the energy, because Russia, quite frankly, badly needs the money.
    So, indirectly the sanctions are helping China?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Putin's a short little man beast anyways.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, indirectly the sanctions are helping China?
    You betcha!

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, indirectly the sanctions are helping China?
    The sanctions are backfiring against the USA. The sanctions are bringing
    Russia, India, China, and the BRICS Nations more closely allied. I have
    noted in another post that China and India see the USA using its' reserve
    currency status as a weapon against Russia and must realize that if the
    USA will do that against Russia, they might be next. That forces them to
    counter the possibility at the first opportunity and this is the first opportunity
    or just to perform a buttress against USA hegemony. The USA is trying to
    conquer the World economically with Central Banking alliances and pressures.
    Nations that value independence will reject this attempt. I believe that is
    what we are witnessing and China's statement that they will support Russia
    is just the first acknowledgement.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The sanctions are backfiring against the USA. The sanctions are bringing
    Russia, India, China, and the BRICS Nations more closely allied. I have
    noted in another post that China and India see the USA using its' reserve
    currency status as a weapon against Russia and must realize that if the
    USA will do that against Russia, they might be next. That forces them to
    counter the possibility at the first opportunity and this is the first opportunity
    or just to perform a buttress against USA hegemony. The USA is trying to
    conquer the World economically with Central Banking alliances and pressures.
    Nations that value independence will reject this attempt. I believe that is
    what we are witnessing and China's statement that they will support Russia
    is just the first acknowledgement.

    Bull****.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    The vote by the Ukrainian Rada (parliament) is a formality to end the country's official nonaligned status. Ukraine would still have to formally apply to join NATO and meet all of the alliance requirements.

    And there's the rub. One of the myriad NATO membership requirements is that the petitioning state not be involved in a territorial dispute. Ukraine still claims sovereignty over Crimea which Russia invaded and illegally annexed in March. There is also the conflict in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk regions with pro-Russian rebels overtly supported by Russian troops and tanks.

    Russia has engineered similar "frozen conflicts" in Georgia (Abkazia/South Ossetia) and Moldova (Transnistria). Putin is very aware that instigating and maintaining such conflicts is tantamount to having a veto over NATO membership.


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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    As Dave Fagan said, Ukraine offers NATO little...except a more antagonized Russia.

    If that is what NATO wants, they should gobble up Ukraine. If it isn't, they shouldn't.

    If I was NATO, I would tell Ukraine, 'thanks, we will take it under advisement' and then delay a decision indefinitely...leaving the door open but not letting them come in.


    But as a world citizen, I think Ukraine joining NATO means nothing but trouble for Europe overall.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    As Dave Fagan said, Ukraine offers NATO little...except a more antagonized Russia.
    Russia hardly needs a NATO excuse. Ukraine was officially a neutral non-aligned nation when Russia invaded in February 2014.

    Russia's invasion also violated the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances which it signed in 1994.


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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Russia hardly needs a NATO excuse. Ukraine was officially a neutral non-aligned nation when Russia invaded in February 2014.

    Russia's invasion also violated the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances which it signed in 1994.
    Russia did not 'invade' the Donetsk region.

    The Donetsk region held a referendum which was overwhelmingly for leaving the Ukraine and joining Russia. Then Ukraine invaded the region and THEN Russia sent in forces to defend the region that overwhelmingly voted to join Russia.

    As far as I know, Russia has not attacked any area outside of the regions that voted to join Russia.


    I am not saying Russia acted with the purest of intentions...clearly it did not.

    But if America can bomb countries at will then I don't see why Russia cannot defend a region that voted to join up with it.

    This whole embargo nonsense for Russia's actions in the Donetsk region and the Crimea (again, which overwhelmingly voted to leave Ukraine and join Russia) is hypocritical of America.

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