Page 11 of 24 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 233

Thread: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

  1. #101
    Invictus


    Rogue Valley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,118

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Ukraine, like the United States and every other independent nation, has the sovereign right to join economic alliances and sign diplomatic/military treaties that are in its best interests. The current government of Ukraine, elected by the people of Ukraine in nationwide elections, is recognized as legal and legitimate by every nation in the world including Russia. The people of Ukraine overwhelmingly elected executive and legislative officials who would fulfill the broken promise of former president Viktor Yanukovych to turn the country westward and integrate with the European community. The people of Ukraine voted this path with clear knowledge of the hardships involved and in the midst of significant economic and military pressures applied by the Russian Federation.

    Ukraine. Presidential Election 2014 [English]
    Ukraine. Legislative Election 2014 [English]

    Regarding Yanukovych, an investigation published (January 3, 2015) by the New York Times reveals that he could no longer continue as president because his security forces, his cabinet, his political party, and his majority parliament all deserted him between the night of February 20 and the morning of February 22. The Maidan opposition and the European Prime Ministers present in Kyiv were all astonished at the news that Yanukovych had fled the city. Yanukovych could not even find succor in the eastern Ukraine Russian-speaking city of Kharkiv and hurriedly fled across the border into the Russian Federation where he remains to this day. It is also worth noting that Yanukovych has not been invited by rebels to visit the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk in eastern Ukraine.

    Ukraine Leader Was Defeated Even Before He Was Ousted


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The people of Ukraine overwhelmingly elected executive and legislative officials who would fulfill the broken promise of former president Viktor Yanukovych to turn the country westward and integrate with the European community.
    There are all types of people in Ukraine. Some, ethnic Russians to be exact, do not want to turn the country westward. Some, ultra-nationalist, right wing Ukrainians are also not interested in integrating with Europe. So your statement is not accurate, although there is some truth to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The people of Ukraine voted this path with clear knowledge of the hardships involved
    Oh please. Most people voting everywhere do no have clear knowledge about anything they are voting about.

  3. #103
    Invictus


    Rogue Valley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,118

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    There are all types of people in Ukraine. Some, ethnic Russians to be exact, do not want to turn the country westward. Some, ultra-nationalist, right wing Ukrainians are also not interested in integrating with Europe. So your statement is not accurate, although there is some truth to it.
    In a democracy, the majority vote is the ultimate arbiter. The maps in the electoral links I provided visibly demonstrate the overwhelming scale of sentiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Oh please. Most people voting everywhere do no have clear knowledge about anything they are voting about.
    The Ukraine presidential/legislative electoral results are far too consistent and persuasive to be attributed to blanket ignorance and confusion.

    The Ukraine presidential election was monitored by 3,600+ official international observers. The Ukraine legislative elections were monitored by 2,321 accredited foreign observers, 304 of them on behalf of 21 states and 2,017 from 20 international organisations. Every nation in the world, including Russia, has recognized that these elections were valid and legitimate.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

  4. #104
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    In a democracy, the majority vote is the ultimate arbiter.
    No that is not true. The US has overthrown democratically elected leaders in many countries that it was not satisfied with. So you are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The maps in the electoral links I provided visibly demonstrate the overwhelming scale of sentiment.
    Maps don't demonstrate anything. It's people with power who tell people what to think that determine the scale of sentiment in political contests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The Ukraine presidential/legislative electoral results are far too consistent and persuasive to be attributed to blanket ignorance and confusion.
    The point is this, most people everywhere, in any substantial political contest, have a very poor grasp on the issues at stake. That is true of the leaders, what to speak of the people who elect them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The Ukraine presidential election was monitored by 3,600+ official international observers. The Ukraine legislative elections were monitored by 2,321 accredited foreign observers, 304 of them on behalf of 21 states and 2,017 from 20 international organisations. Every nation in the world, including Russia, has recognized that these elections were valid and legitimate.
    Yanukovich was elected democratically. I didn't mean diddly squat at the end of the day.

  5. #105
    Sage
    EnigmaO01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 12:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    7,027

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Do you suppose he is a bigger laughing stock than Barack?

    Judging from how things have played out over the last 2 years, it appears to me that Vlad was raised playing chess, whilst Barack was raised playing checkers, if you get my drift.
    Yeah the ecomomy is rebounding big time in the US and the stock market is at record high levels while Putin's economy's going in the toilet, due to a one comodity Russian economy and the sanctions. I think we know full well who was playing checkers and who is the laughing stock of the world and it's not Obama.

  6. #106
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Yeah the ecomomy is rebounding big time in the US and the stock market is at record high levels while Putin's economy's going in the toilet, due to a one comodity Russian economy and the sanctions. I think we know full well who was playing checkers and who is the laughing stock of the world and it's not Obama.
    You are right. Obama did get the best of Putin with regards to Ukraine, IF THIS DOESN'T LEAD TO A MILITARY CONFLICT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THE US. In that case no one wins. But it was not much Putin could do. He is just in a weak position relative to the US. He has done a rather good job playing a poor hand.

  7. #107
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Might be a smart move. Russia's financial situation may keep Putin preoccupied and also not leave him the resources to retaliate.
    Smart in a very restricted sense. It has come at far too great a price for what was accomplished. That being the case, it was not a smart move at all, at least not in the grand scheme of things.

  8. #108
    Sage


    Thoreau72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    20,276

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    NATO & Friends weren't the ones who started this mess.
    So you say.

    Trouble is, others say that the agreement signed between Gorbachev and Reagan contained language regarding expansion into Ukraine, and that the agreement has been broken.

    Knowing my government the way I do, if that were the case I would not be surprised in the least.

  9. #109
    Sage


    Thoreau72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    20,276

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Yeah the ecomomy is rebounding big time in the US and the stock market is at record high levels while Putin's economy's going in the toilet, due to a one comodity Russian economy and the sanctions. I think we know full well who was playing checkers and who is the laughing stock of the world and it's not Obama.
    I suppose the depends upon the company one keeps, eh? Though I'm not sure whether Obama is perceived more as a clown, or more as a criminal hypocrite who happens to be a Nobel recipient.

  10. #110
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    So you say.

    Trouble is, others say that the agreement signed between Gorbachev and Reagan contained language regarding expansion into Ukraine, and that the agreement has been broken.

    Knowing my government the way I do, if that were the case I would not be surprised in the least.
    There is no doubt that the US shares quite a bit of the blame for what has transpired in Ukraine.

Page 11 of 24 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •