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Dontre Hamilton Shooting: No Charges for Fired Milwaukee Cop

apdst said:
At this point, that's irrelevant.
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LOL you sound like Hilary Clinton...:lamo

If course it matters. If the cop just decides out of the blue to beat someone on the head with a baton, said someone has to take it? What kind of police state do you want to live in? Of course you might be saying the cop MUST have had a reason to be beating the guy on the head, so what is the reason?
 
RogueWarrior said:
LOL you sound like Hilary Clinton...:lamo

If course it matters. If the cop just decides out of the blue to beat someone on the head with a baton, said someone has to take it? What kind of police state do you want to live in? Of course you might be saying the cop MUST have had a reason to be beating the guy on the head, so what is the reason?
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Hamilton didn't have any right to assault the cop.
 
AJiveMan said:
You would not hear that from other media outlets, I watched and heard that on WTMJ last night when a journalist was interviewing the family's attorney, that Dontre Hamilton had club marks on his head. Why that's not been mentioned by MSM I don't know. But the scenario I painted in the earlier post is what the family's attorney alluded to or implied.
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See...here is that bull**** that happens. Rather than post 'knowns', you post "well...I heard on this one site"...and "of course you wont hear this from the media that is already reporting on it" and "well...I read somewhere that he had 'club marks' on his head"... and next thing you know there are people repeating it like its gospel (already happening in this thread) and suddenly we got us a lynching in South Carolina.

This witness says he saw no such beating occurring...and he is on the side of the homeless guy.
Witness Tells Different Story About Wednesday’s MPD Killing of Man at Red Arrow Park | Occupy Riverwest
 
VanceMack said:
You have no idea how law enforcement officers train with firearms...do you?
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Not really, but training aside if you think your life is in danger it shouldnt take 13 shots to bring down an attacker unless your panicking of course.
 
Higgins86 said:
Not really, but training aside if you think your life is in danger it shouldnt take 13 shots to bring down an attacker unless your panicking of course.
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You ever been in a shootout?
 
Higgins86 said:
Not really, but training aside if you think your life is in danger it shouldnt take 13 shots to bring down an attacker unless your panicking of course.
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Actually they train to avoid panic. And typically...they shoot til the threat is ended and then reload and assess.

You might want to know what you are commenting on before you are commenting on it. Mind you...I get why you dont feel the need to know. You arent in their shoes.
 
Higgins86 said:
Not really, but training aside if you think your life is in danger it shouldnt take 13 shots to bring down an attacker unless your panicking of course.
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Reality is a bitch. Sometimes it takes more than 13.
 
Excon said:
Reality is a bitch. Sometimes it takes more than 13.
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An expert on police shootings testified that Hamilton took the first shot and didnt so much as blink. Mind you, we are talking a guy that had been diagnosed as schizophrenic and who a year ago was hospitalized for stabbing himself in the neck.
 
apdst said:
You ever been in a shootout?
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Yeh in Iraq. Granted its completley different however its just inconceivable to me that you would need to fire 13 times, close range to take down a unarmed man. After patrols our ammo used to get counted to make sure we weren't going trigger happy. If we were using that much ammo on individual unarmed civillains we would be strung up on war crimes lol.
 
Higgins86 said:
Yeh in Iraq. Granted its completley different however its just inconceivable to me that you would need to fire 13 times, close range to take down a unarmed man. After patrols our ammo used to get counted to make sure we weren't going trigger happy. If we were using that much ammo on individual unarmed civillains we would be strung up on war crimes lol.
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I thought you had and I also believe you can understand how someone could get overtaken by adrenaline and over-react.
 
apdst said:
I thought you had and I also believe you can understand how someone could get overtaken by adrenaline and over-react.
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No I dont doubt it and as I said I have no issue with the officer shooting. I just question the 13 shots fired and if it was really needed or he went into panic mode. Again though I wasn't there nor am I a policeman so it doesnt really matter what I think
 
Higgins86 said:
No I dont doubt it and as I said I have no issue with the officer shooting. I just question the 13 shots fired and if it was really needed or he went into panic mode. Again though I wasn't there nor am I a policeman so it doesnt really matter what I think
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The dude isn't SAS. You can't expect the same fire discipline.
 
apdst said:
The dude isn't SAS. You can't expect the same fire discipline.
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This is true and maybe my attitude towards it says a lot about what we expect from the Police, maybe we expect too much?
 
Higgins86 said:
This is true and maybe my attitude towards it says a lot about what we expect from the Police, maybe we expect too much?
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That's a food question. While an SAS trooper could have put Hamilton on ice with one round, he is also trained to kill; not arrest, or detain. Do we want cops that are trained to kill on the same level as SAS, or SEAL's, or Green Berets? Let's say we did, how many cops are there that can make it through SF training?

Now, that being said, I so believe that your average police academy training regimine isn't nearly tough enough.
 
apdst said:
The dude isn't SAS. You can't expect the same fire discipline.
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You fight til the threat is eliminated.
This is a great video from one of the worlds leading experts.

His comments beginning at 5:30 explain a lot. Cops that shoot on average 2-3 times lose. Cops that shoot 6 times are more win and the only reason that number isnt higher is because the statistics were gathered when the majority of cops carried revolvers.

 
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apdst said:
Hamilton didn't have any right to assault the cop.
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Not even to defend himself from a possible cop-gone-wild? Does the badge give a cop immunity to beat anyone he wants for any reason he cares to invent?

If a cop starts beating you with a baton for no reason you can ascertain, what would YOU do? hand him a bottle of lube?
 
VanceMack said:
You fight til the threat is eliminated.
This is a great video from one of the worlds leading experts.

His comments beginning at 5:30 explain a lot. Cops that shoot on average 2-3 times lose. Cops that shoot 6 times are more win and the only reason that number isnt higher is because the statistics were gathered when the majority of cops carried revolvers.
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Personally, I think a cop should be able to score a kill with 4 rounds, or less, but I went to a different school.
 
apdst said:
Personally, I think a cop should be able to score a kill with 4 rounds, or less, but I went to a different school.
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'should' is a relative word. People 'should' be able to kill with one shot. And thats how it works on the range. I watch people target shoot all the time. I dont see many people shoot tactically, shoot off hand, shoot from cover, shoot to reach cover, shoot with an advancing target, etc.
 
RogueWarrior said:
Not even to defend himself from a possible cop-gone-wild? Does the badge give a cop immunity to beat anyone he wants for any reason he cares to invent?

If a cop starts beating you with a baton for no reason you can ascertain, what would YOU do? hand him a bottle of lube?
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No, not even then. Obviously, doing so had the opposite of the desired outcome.
 
VanceMack said:
'should' is a relative word. People 'should' be able to kill with one shot. And thats how it works on the range. I watch people target shoot all the time. I dont see many people shoot tactically, shoot off hand, shoot from cover, shoot to reach cover, shoot with an advancing target, etc.
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That is in line with my point. Once adrenaline takes over, the textbook goes out the window.
 
apdst said:
That is in line with my point. Once adrenaline takes over, the textbook goes out the window.
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Police training 'textbook' means, you fire til the threat is eliminated and you dont trust the 1-2 shot, assess. If you read any of the testimony you will see the guy that was shot had a previous diagnosis of schizophrenia and 'didnt even blink' with the second shot. Emptying a magazine and conducting a tactical reload while assessing further danger is textbook.
 
RogueWarrior said:
Not even to defend himself from a possible cop-gone-wild? Does the badge give a cop immunity to beat anyone he wants for any reason he cares to invent?

If a cop starts beating you with a baton for no reason you can ascertain, what would YOU do? hand him a bottle of lube?
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You are making an argument based on a post offering a theory by someone with an agenda and no actual knowledge of the event. That one post has you convinced that the poor victim was being beaten for no reason by cops and that caused him to grab the baton. NOne of the witness statements corroborate any such incident including the statement by a witness that was upset he was shot.
 
VanceMack said:
Police training 'textbook' means, you fire til the threat is eliminated and you dont trust the 1-2 shot, assess. If you read any of the testimony you will see the guy that was shot had a previous diagnosis of schizophrenia and 'didnt even blink' with the second shot. Emptying a magazine and conducting a tactical reload while assessing further danger is textbook.
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Two rounds to the cheat and one to the head and anybody is going down.
 
VanceMack said:
You are making an argument based on a post offering a theory by someone with an agenda and no actual knowledge of the event. That one post has you convinced that the poor victim was being beaten for no reason by cops and that caused him to grab the baton. NOne of the witness statements corroborate any such incident including the statement by a witness that was upset he was shot.
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Not convinced of anything.
Why are there baton marks on his head? Why did the cop decide that a baton beating was necessary?


Wouldn't have been easier, though less fun, to just hand the guy the baton before shooting him 'because he was armed'?
 
apdst said:
Two rounds to the cheat and one to the head and anybody is going down.
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Great philosophy. Practiced on gun ranges against stationary paper targets all across the country.
 
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