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Thread: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

  1. #51
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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother AJ View Post
    BBC News - Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan


    I'm uncertain as to whether this is a first, but it's certainly significant nonetheless! Of course, it could be appealed, but I see this as a step forward in the fight to recognize that it is not only humans that can be accurately regarded as "persons" or as beings that desire freedom and to be free from harm!
    This is the dumbest ruling ever made by a court in history. only a idiot would find in favor of this. of course this has no bearing on US law at all.

  2. #52
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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Yes, we can give rights to frogs if we want also. But, when we start going to court and giving animals rights, well, that's just stupid.
    Animals already have rights. For example, if an animal is endangered they are granted various protections. Pet's have various rights to prevent cruelty and ensure they are cared for. Given an orangutan ha the intellect of a 4 year old child, is self aware, is capable of empathy, and mourns the death of its friends, why would we not grant them some rights and protections that we might not would grant say a lab rat or a beetle?
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  3. #53
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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother AJ View Post
    Yea okay, I'm gonna call fallacy on this one. LOL! Seriously this is one of most hyperbolic things I've ever read!

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope


    Irrelevant to the topic at hand.
    So where is the line? It's ok to kill bacteria. How about insects? Can I kill insects?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  4. #54
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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother AJ View Post
    Not in the eyes of the law. It's important to state the difference because people such as yourself like to paint this issue with an absurd brush and claim we advocate awarding other animals "human rights". They aren't human, but doesn't mean they can't be a person.
    they aren't a person neither are other animals. we already have animal protection laws.

    Er... you mean besides the obvious? It's easily demonstrable that orangutans live rich emotional lives and care about their own well being. This isn't as simple to prove when it comes to flies. Not to say that it's impossible, but it's clearly an issue that doesn't need to be addressed every time we concern ourselves with the rights of beings that are clearly sentient.
    actually it is. flies and other creatures all exhibit some form of emotional reaction to different stimulus. they are sentient to a certain degree. if you want to follow this kind of logic at least be consistent.
    which means we would have to grant personhood to numerous types of animals etc ... I doubt you want to go to prison or get a fine for swatting a fly

    Animal cruelty laws do not indicate that we see other animals as persons or right's holders. Legally, they are still chattel property.
    because they are animals not persons.

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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So where is the line? It's ok to kill bacteria. How about insects? Can I kill insects?
    given the logic at hand the answer would be no. even bacteria has some sentient intelligence to it.

  6. #56
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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And, in other news, the orangutan will be replacing Bill O'Reilly on FOX News.
    So, there will be no changes in content or delivery.
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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Animals already have rights. For example, if an animal is endangered they are granted various protections. Pet's have various rights to prevent cruelty and ensure they are cared for. Given an orangutan ha the intellect of a 4 year old child, is self aware, is capable of empathy, and mourns the death of its friends, why would we not grant them some rights and protections that we might not would grant say a lab rat or a beetle?
    No, they don't have any rights at all. Those are restraints we put on ourselves, nothing to do with the animal. What rights do cows and chickens have, we slaughter them by the thousands for food and other products? Animals are a resource, have been that for millions of years.
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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    given the logic at hand the answer would be no. even bacteria has some sentient intelligence to it.
    I think you're looking for a different word than "sentient."
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Whether you want to call it a reflex or not, pain and sight reflexes, if the latter exist, are dependent on consciousness.

    And how does the researcher know that?
    Read up on how they do the research, it's pretty interesting stuff.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #60
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    Re: Court in Argentina grants basic rights to orangutan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    We do experimentation on humans, too, though with their consent. With the greater intelligence attributes that primates have, doing experimentation on them (regardless of whether they are capable of the sort of abstract reasoning that would allow them to understand and consent to such experimentation) is unethical.
    Of course it is unethical. I'm being selfish and utilitarian in my analysis. I care less about their rights than I do about the potential betterment of my species.

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