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Thread: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle[W:132]

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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Sharpton is useless, but if he's not doing this, what's he going to do?

    It's like the risk people at your work - if they don't find something wrong with your process, what is the point of them being there? So even if your process is near flawless, they're going to come with some stupid idea for you to change because otherwise they didn't do ****.
    This is actually one of those things I've said about "movements" for some time on this forum...be it right, left, or even apolitical movements.

    The problem with a movement is that they never really organically end. They never can actually reach their goal or accomplish anything; at least not in a sense that they can actually acknowledged that they succeeded in a significant way.

    Why?

    Well because then the power, the money, the prestige, the work...it goes away.

    That's why pretty much every movement in my mind eventually becomes a distorted charicature of what it truly is...especially ones that have success. There always has to be another problem, it always can't be good enough, it never can be acknowldeged to be isgnificantly better than it was..because if it is then they will begin to question why they need to be giving you so much support anymore.

    Again, this is a left and right thing. It's an apolitical notion. The same kind of thing will eventually happen to the tea party, I have no doubt.

    Sharpton is a barnacle. He's a parasite. For him to have influence, to have power, to make money, to gain notiriety and to stay relevant, there has to be racial unrest. And the bigger that unrest is the more important he is. So if there's little unrest out there, then something needs to be stirred up to look a little bigger. And if there's legitimate unrest out there, then it needs to be made out to be the worst thing ever. Because otherwise, what is Sharpton supposed to do? What's his worth? What's his value? Thereis none.

    You're spot on in comparing it to people at a workplace who recognize that their job is pretty much something that goes on auto-pilot, so they do just enough to make it look like there's consistent work to be done and they allow things to go "wrong" just enough to make it look like there's significant value in having them around.

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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    That's a good point, and indicative of how the media and public operates in general. The national media is generally going to report on things that are either extraordinarily bad or good - so every day good/bad don't get reported.
    Contraversy sells. The only thing better than a story everyone will like or everyone will be upset about is one that will upset a large portion of people for differing reasons, causing them to argue with each other, which inherently keeps things on the forefront and gives the media fodder.

    Strangely enough, the sports media is the type that is easiest to use to illustrate this type of thing...

    I normally am not a huge fan of deadspin, but they illustrate this wonderfully HERE.

    Something benign but mildly interesting happens.

    A blowhard, in the guise of a "member of the media", makes outrageous statements or claims that blowhards normally make.

    Viewers take note of blowhards take on event, and they have split opinions on it, and they argue about it generating interest.

    Then the media has actual journalists report on the event and the uproar over the event brought about due to the blowhard comments from the media.

    Then another blowhard in the media brings up the report about the reaction to the original blowhards opinion about an event in order to give their own conflicting and just as outlandish opinion regarding the event.

    Which starts the whole cycle over again.

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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle[W:132]

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    - Not all the police actions the protesters are marching on were wrong. (imo)
    I never said they were...but there's been enough wrong actions by the police that people have taken notice. That's why I'm a big fan of body cameras for police...and they work:

    Police officers in the small city of Rialto in San Bernardino County have been wearing cameras since 2012. Rialto Police Chief William A. Farrar, working with a Cambridge University researcher, found two big results: Complaints against his officers declined by 88 percent and officer use of force declined by 60 percent.

    Think about that. If the police weren't at least sometimes doing that which is wrong, why would the use of body cameras result in such a dramatic drop, not just in complaints against the police but - and this is the important factor - a 60 percent drop in the use of force by the police?
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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle[W:132]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I never said they were...but there's been enough wrong actions by the police that people have taken notice. That's why I'm a big fan of body cameras for police...and they work:

    Police officers in the small city of Rialto in San Bernardino County have been wearing cameras since 2012. Rialto Police Chief William A. Farrar, working with a Cambridge University researcher, found two big results: Complaints against his officers declined by 88 percent and officer use of force declined by 60 percent.

    Think about that. If the police weren't at least sometimes doing that which is wrong, why would the use of body cameras result in such a dramatic drop, not just in complaints against the police but - and this is the important factor - a 60 percent drop in the use of force by the police?
    There's video of Eric Garner resisting arrest and it makes no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The problem with a movement is that they never really organically end. They never can actually reach their goal or accomplish anything; at least not in a sense that they can actually acknowledged that they succeeded in a significant way.

    Well because then the power, the money, the prestige, the work...it goes away.
    Great point. One of the easiest examples to see how a movement rots away is the OWS movement. Now this one I think was more susceptible than most because it didn't have a clear goal and was truly join-able by anyone. So what starts out as a "we think Wall Street should be more responsible"-type movement gets hijacked by anyone willing to shout louder than the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I normally am not a huge fan of deadspin, but they illustrate this wonderfully HERE.
    Wow, that was a fantastic read. I was just having a conversation earlier about how CNN, Fox News, ESPN, and other media outlets do that - report on something highly circumstantial, and then report on the fact that it has been reported on. It goes from being a blogger opinion, to being actual news.

    But on a side note, I do think it's unfair when people jab on the news with comments like, "How can you cover that school shooting where 5 white kids died, but 10 black kids were shot in Chicago yesterday and there was no peep?", or "How can you cover the three people that looted during the disaster, but not the hundreds of people who were just trying to get supplies and food?".

    These types of things are not examples of liberal or conservative bias. One is an extraordinary situation and the other isn't. So to your point about De Blaiso, it's a similar situation. People demonstrating peacefully garners some news, but it's not extraordinary. It's not really all that worthy of national attention, unless something about it makes it become extraordinary (such as violence or unprecedented community support). Why would the media focus on something that is supposed to happen?

    What would the report be: "People gathered, and some of them were not douches!"?
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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle[W:132]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I never said they were...but there's been enough wrong actions by the police that people have taken notice. That's why I'm a big fan of body cameras for police...and they work:

    Police officers in the small city of Rialto in San Bernardino County have been wearing cameras since 2012. Rialto Police Chief William A. Farrar, working with a Cambridge University researcher, found two big results: Complaints against his officers declined by 88 percent and officer use of force declined by 60 percent.

    Think about that. If the police weren't at least sometimes doing that which is wrong, why would the use of body cameras result in such a dramatic drop, not just in complaints against the police but - and this is the important factor - a 60 percent drop in the use of force by the police?
    Didn't say you did. I was responding to your comment regarding the "protesters". imo, some protesters act without knowing the facts.

    Yes, body cameras seem to help.

    Think about it. The drop in complaints and use of force may have more to do with the fact the citizen knows the their actions are being recorded. It is more difficult for one to claim police excessive force when your actions are recorded.

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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Great point. One of the easiest examples to see how a movement rots away is the OWS movement. Now this one I think was more susceptible than most because it didn't have a clear goal and was truly join-able by anyone. So what starts out as a "we think Wall Street should be more responsible"-type movement gets hijacked by anyone willing to shout louder than the rest.



    Wow, that was a fantastic read. I was just having a conversation earlier about how CNN, Fox News, ESPN, and other media outlets do that - report on something highly circumstantial, and then report on the fact that it has been reported on. It goes from being a blogger opinion, to being actual news.

    But on a side note, I do think it's unfair when people jab on the news with comments like, "How can you cover that school shooting where 5 white kids died, but 10 black kids were shot in Chicago yesterday and there was no peep?", or "How can you cover the three people that looted during the disaster, but not the hundreds of people who were just trying to get supplies and food?".

    These types of things are not examples of liberal or conservative bias. One is an extraordinary situation and the other isn't. So to your point about De Blaiso, it's a similar situation. People demonstrating peacefully garners some news, but it's not extraordinary. It's not really all that worthy of national attention, unless something about it makes it become extraordinary (such as violence or unprecedented community support). Why would the media focus on something that is supposed to happen?

    What would the report be: "People gathered, and some of them were not douches!"?

    Neh, this one is going to rot, too; probably more so than OWS.


    Hearts and minds: Anti-police protesters crash memorial for slain NYPD officers Hot Air

    This movement is going to rate right up there with Westboro Baptist Church, before long.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Neh, this one is going to rot, too; probably more so than OWS.


    Hearts and minds: Anti-police protesters crash memorial for slain NYPD officers Hot Air

    This movement is going to rate right up there with Westboro Baptist Church, before long.
    I would tend to agree. The worst types of people can take a noble cause and ruin it with great efficiency.
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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    He absolutely does have a record of stoking racial fires. I don't like him either.

    The difference betweeen us it seems is that despite disliking him, I don't think it's wrong, unfair, or worthy of condemnation to call out people who's arguments are based on outright lies simply because I dislike Sharpton.



    You would think they are...and yet you've still got posters who have been repeatedly claiming that Al Sharpton called for dead cops, or suggesting that he led/hosted protests with people calling for dead cops.

    When the facts show that's absolutely false.
    Did he sell tickets to protest or something? I mean, how do know that the group chanting for dead cops weren't part of Sharpton's group that day?
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    Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Did he sell tickets to protest or something? I mean, how do know that the group chanting for dead cops weren't part of Sharpton's group that day?
    The group in question was reported to be in New York on December 13th as part of the Millions March NYC.

    As you can see from that link, the event was organized and hosted by two women...Synead Nichols and Umaara Elliot. If you scan their website you will not see any claims of support from Al Sharpton or the civil rights group he founded, the National Action Network.

    If you go to that site and check the press releases, you'll find in the second press release a name of all the official co-sponsors/organizers for the group. You'll again notice that Al Sharpton and/or the NAN are no where to be found on it.

    Meanwhile, Sharpton was 225 miles away in Washington DC hosting his Justice for All March. This march was also on December 13th, the same day as the Millions March NYC, but in an entirely diffrent city.

    You can google "National Action Network" and "Justice for All March" and find all sorts of links to instances on their website talking about the protest in DC they organized and hosted.

    The only "evidence" that the New York crowd was in any way related to Sharpton has been:

    1. Random right wing blogs that are either unsourced...OR the sources they link to actually don't verify any of the claims they make
    2. Headlines or videos, such as a Fox and Friends video, where the NYC protests and the Al Sharpton protests are spoken about back to back giving the IMPRESSION they were directly related despite being entirely seperate events hosted by entirely different people.

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