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Thread: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

  1. #11
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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Wars cost money and the fact that the Obama administration is actively encouraging the Pakistan government to do this and is supporting them means the blame definitely lies with our government- this is why terrorism is on the rise all over the world.
    What would you like the obama administration to do?
    And btw, the pakistanis have been killing the talibans for decades now. It's not something that they just started doing, they've been at it for decades. As I said above, the pakistani talibans are pashto unionists, they want for the pashtun dominated regions to be united with Afghanistan because they're one people. And the pakistani majority, which is indian and muslim, are not making any compromise.

    The pashtun dominated regions like Barluchsitan is under appointed governorship by Islamabad. In other words, they, the pashtun can't even vote for their governor for their region. It's like if you lived in california and Obama appointed the political leadership, governor and legislative assembly, in California and the californian people would have 0 say in it. That's not giving people representation, it's tyranny. What would you like the pashtun in pakistan to do? Shut up and take it? Ofc they're rebel. And that's what the pakistani talibans are, pashtun people who want to not be under the tyranny of a punjabi-dominated political class that basically ****s all over them. I think you didnt' read what I wrote and just replied like an automaton, otherwise I can't imagine why you would make such statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Why shouldn't the Obama administration encourage the Pakistani government to fight the Taliban? While the Pakistani government is not the "good guys" by ANY stretch of the imagination, the Taliban are horrible, horrible people.
    the taliban in pakistan aren't the same as the taliban in afghanistan. They're fighting for different reasons. Read comment #2.

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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Choosing a side in a civil war in which we have no business to be a part of does not make us any better, in fact, it encourages reprisal attacks against us.
    I wouldn't say we had no business being a part of it. I hate playing the 9/11 card, but the Taliban DID harbor OBL and DID give safe haven to AQ. Now, we could have done about this much better (I don't think any reasonable person can disagree with that), and given that Pakistan is a nuclear state, it is in the United States' best interests that the powers that be in Pakistan remain so, rather than have the Taliban, perish the thought, WIN that debacle.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    the taliban in pakistan aren't the same as the taliban in afghanistan. They're fighting for different reasons. Read comment #2.
    Are you comfortable with the Taliban in Pakistan having their hands on nuclear armaments?

    EDIT: Yeah, I might want to rethink that last statement
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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    "Libertarian" is not a synonym for "isolationist."
    Platform | Libertarian Party

    3.3 International Affairs

    American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world. Our foreign policy should emphasize defense against attack from abroad and enhance the likelihood of peace by avoiding foreign entanglements. We would end the current U.S. government policy of foreign intervention, including military and economic aid. We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or by political or revolutionary groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I wouldn't say we had no business being a part of it. I hate playing the 9/11 card, but the Taliban DID harbor OBL and DID give safe haven to AQ. Now, we could have done about this much better (I don't think any reasonable person can disagree with that), and given that Pakistan is a nuclear state, it is in the United States' best interests that the powers that be in Pakistan remain so, rather than have the Taliban, perish the thought, WIN that debacle.
    By choosing sides, we are encouraging more Taliban recruitment to be used against us. If we didnt take any sides, there would be no reason for the Taliban to retaliate against us. The US is not the policeman of the world.

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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive



    The Pakistani government has identified Umar Mansoor (above, a/k/a Slim) as the mastermind of the school attack. The bloody attack in Peshawar killed many of the sons of Pakistani Army officers. Army Gen. Raheel Sharif said Pakistan will re-introduce hanging for terrorism crimes with no appeal allowed. Death warrants have been issued for six men so far.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    The fact that the Taliban is capable of such atrocities is the very reason why we and all other western powers should encourage governments in the Middle East to stamp these roaches out with brutal force. Just more hippie ****bag apologism.

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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    So when the US government dispatches billions in military aid to Pakistan and encourages their ethnic cleansing of other peoples in the region all is non-interventionist to you?
    Ethnic cleansing? Is the Taliban an ethnicity now in Oceania?

    Choosing a side in a civil war in which we have no business to be a part of does not make us any better, in fact, it encourages reprisal attacks against us.
    Yes, yes it most certainly does make us better than those who carry out the attacks. The usefulness and moral superiority of your "none of our business" foreign policy pretty much ends outside AynRandville.

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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    The taliban in Pakistan aren't like the taliban in Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, they are fighting for an islamic state. In pakistan, they are fighting for cultural union because they don't want to be ruled by other people who care little for them.
    Incorrect. The Pakistani taliban has claimed allegiance to both the Afghani taliban and the Islamic State, and has pledged to aid in reaching both goals.

    Pakistani Taliban leaders pledge allegiance to Islamic State - The Washington Post

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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    https://news.yahoo.com/terrorist-mas...230211180.html

    The Pakistani Taliban assault on a school — killing 145, including 132 children — appears to be ”blowback” from a months-long Pakistani military offensive against the terror group that was encouraged and supported by the U.S. government, Pakistani and U.S. officials said today.

    The Pakistani military launched the offensive last June, killing more than 1,800 militants as well as an unknown number of civilians, in the group’s hideouts in North Waziristan.
    There you go. Why did we even get ourselves involved in this?
    This is going to be a tough call to suggest that the US is responsible as the article suggests, but I tend to agree with you that our long term participation in this cannot be ignored. The bigger issue here is how we handle "encouragement" of these nations to handle their own problems. That should be our goal. We know from the US lengthy war in Afghanistan that at some point the Taliban has to be minimized else there will be continued issue in the region for whoever is in charge. This is not new. The current Afghanistan government will have to contend with this on their side of the fence, and so will the Pakistan government on the other side.

    We cannot unring this bell now given our lengthy involvement in the region. It is going to take time to undo this as it is way to simplistic to say the school massacre is a result of Pakistan government action against the Taliban at our insistence. I would offer that this ideological fight has been going on for decades, and they seem to be perfectly willing to kill themselves with or without our involvement.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Terrorist massacre of children ‘blowback’ from U.S.-backed Pakistani offensive

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Incorrect. The Pakistani taliban has claimed allegiance to both the Afghani taliban and the Islamic State, and has pledged to aid in reaching both goals.

    Pakistani Taliban leaders pledge allegiance to Islamic State - The Washington Post
    Because they're trying to unite their people into a single country. And nobody is on their side. The pakistani taliban want union for all pashtun people and if nobody is there to help them achieve it, they'll find allies in those that have the same enemies or perceived enemies as they do.

    Also, the pakistani talibans are, just like the taliban, a plurality of groups all lead by loosely associated leaders. And a lot of people just... do stuff. Things like, 6 friends get together and talk about how angry they are that the islamabad-driven regime has put X or said Y or did Z or something to their people and they decide to take matters in their own hands and that's how you get them having weapons and going in to shoot some police officers or whatever. It's ad-hoc guerilla warfare because it's not about faction Taliban vs faction Pakistan. It's people of pashtun origins who are driven to anger and hate by a regime that disconsiders them against said regime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Are you comfortable with the Taliban in Pakistan having their hands on nuclear armaments?

    EDIT: Yeah, I might want to rethink that last statement
    I'm not comfortable with Pakistan having nuclear armaments. I wouldn't be with the taliban having them either. But India has nukes so therefore Pakistan must have nukes. And you can't take their nukes without taking China's nukes away... and good luck with that. It's at least 30 years too late for that.

    The point isn't to defend either side, it's to understand what is happening in Pakistan. In case you didn't understand what post #2 and the prev comment was about, it wasn't about me being partisan, it's about you guys being partisan and not understanding the situation. How can you have an opinion, or say a certain thing, or support that puff piece of journalism that the OP posted without understanding the situation.

    Right now, Pakistan is facing a civil crisis. Taliban, mass riots and protests, there is a lot of civil strife and the current regime is doing poorly. And yes, it is a nuclear power we're talking about which makes understanding, UNDERSTANDING not taking sides, not being partisan, but understanding what is happening in Pakistan all the more important.

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