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Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

Sherman123 said:
You don't get to vote me into a dictatorship. The majority in Crimea has no right to bring the minority into an authoritarian state. Their wishes are irrelevant. Civil rights are far more important than popular sovereignty.
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Important qualification is that you don't get to vote me into a dictatorship unless you have the power to make it happen.

Even most of North America was acquired by right of conquest more than anything else.
 
Putin put Russian bear on chain, that's obvious.
 
German Chancellor Angela Merkel - previously a close friend of Putin - was succinct and spot-on as to why the theft of Crimea concerns *everyone* in the global community...

“We are suddenly confronted with a conflict that goes, so to speak, to the core of our values,” Ms. Merkel said in Sydney, Australia, in November. “Old thinking in terms of spheres of influence, in which international law is trampled upon, cannot be allowed to assert itself.”

Source
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Simpleχity;1064110755 said:
Under heavy political and military occupation.


The US has no control over global oil prices. Note to Russia: It is absurd to base your economy on a single commodity.


This is not a sole US initiative. Sanctions have also been levied by the EU and the G20 nations. One hundred nations of the UN General Assembly have also condemned Russia's theft of Crimea.
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you don't like Russia. WGAF? maybe you should go poke Putin in the eye. meanwhile, we've been globetrotting for at least three decades, involving ourselves in cold wars, hot wars, and everything in between. it's time to get out of the war business and fix our own house. the rest of the world can fistfight if it likes.
 
Helix said:
you don't like Russia. WGAF? maybe you should go poke Putin in the eye. meanwhile, we've been globetrotting for at least three decades, involving ourselves in cold wars, hot wars, and everything in between. it's time to get out of the war business and fix our own house. the rest of the world can fistfight if it likes.
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You're asking way too much, the USA wouldn't be the USA if it weren't meddling in other people's affairs.
 
Helix said:
you don't like Russia. WGAF? maybe you should go poke Putin in the eye.
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I had little quarrel with Russia until it leaped over the border with troops and tanks.

Helix said:
meanwhile, we've been globetrotting for at least three decades, involving ourselves in cold wars, hot wars, and everything in between. it's time to get out of the war business and fix our own house. the rest of the world can fistfight if it likes.
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Then I suggest you contact your government representatives. Both houses of Congress voted *unanimously* to pass the Ukraine Freedom Act of 2014 and Obama *signed it* into law.

New sanctions were imposed on Crimea yesterday.

US hits Crimea with new sanctions

EU approves new Crimea sanctions
 
Dayton3 said:
I would prefer to put it in a grave but a chain will suffice.
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Why? Because US liberals are pissed off that the Russian elite have an aversion to homsexuality?
 
annata said:
Russian nationalism at work. He's still got high poll numbers there - a lot of support - not just from the old people who watch state TV.
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As I said on another thread having high poll numbers in a dictatorship where the govt runs the media isn't that hard to do.
 
Fallenangel said:
Currently, Russia is swamped with bureaucrats, and low quality "professionals" that breed corruption and incompetence, both are still a disease that Russia as a whole struggles to deal with. These factors combined with several others make Russia's economy as weak as it is today.
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This is going to make things very difficult for Russia.

Russia is facing sanctions and fast moving market situations. The sanctions are being implemented by people who can draw on a huge amount of first hand and institutional knowledge on how international currency, oil, banking etc markets work and where to apply pressure.

Meanwhile, Russia has only been capitalist for twenty years. As such, they lack the institutional knowledge on how to counter the effects of the sanctions. And.... some, or many, of Russian decision makers may also lack first hand knowledge and the academic talent to offer effective solutions.

All the more reason for Putin to abandon his plans to turn Ukraine into a Russian protectorate and just be content with Crimea. He can still claim a huge victory. But, noooo.... Putin evidently responds with a 3.5 hour rambling speech.
 
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Simpleχity;1064109009 said:
Try a more apt analogy. The US invades Nova Scotia and annexes it as the 51[SUP]st[/SUP] state.

Neither Canada nor the rest of the world would be amused. There would be hell to pay and rightfully so.
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Your analogy ignores reality.

Try Russia initiates coup to take over Canada. The US, with 25,000 soldiers at bases already leased
from pre-takeover Canada in Nova Scotia which was given to Canada by the US and has many US
natives, vote to allow annexation by US and not be ruled by an illegal coup.
 
When will Russian consciousness elevate to an above "Russian Bear" level?
 
DaveFagan said:
What Putin says is true. We are conducting an "Economic War" against Russia.
The sanctions are economic war and it is very likely that John Kerry's August
trip to Saudi Arabia was to request for an OIL price drop to corral the Russian "Gas
Station,(McCain), by squeezing the product that generates about 60% or more
of the Russian economy. Keep in mind that Russia suffered 20 million casualties
in WWII helping the allies snuff Hitler. We've been treating them like an enemy
ever since. The backstory is that CORPORATISM is deathly afraid of Communism
because it is labor oriented instead of Elitist Capital oriented. Russia's actions
to co-ordinate the BRICS Nations and develop alternative banking, currency, and
financing arrangements are what is behind the USA intrigue to bankrupt Russia.
The USA is colluding with the World's largest banks and uses the power of the
Reserve Currency against Russia. Russia must operate with its' own surplus
capital whereas the USA continuously writes checks (new money/debt) to add
to Trillions of dollars of debt that the money structure of the World must tolerate.
Russia is organizing a threat to that Unlimited Debt hegemony. If China and India
decide to help Russia with their large surpluses, Russia will recover more rapidly,
Irregardless, Russia will recover and develop a more independent economy and, most
definitely, an alternative banking environment. Russia is the new boogeyman of the
"Mighty Wurlitzer" CIA generated narrative and big boost to the Military Industrial
Corporate Complex that needs a focused potential enemy/threat to keep the DOLLARS
flowing. Over 60% of the US economy goes to Military Offense. Does that make people
proud? I don't think so.
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We may have treated Russia "like an enemy" because of Stalin the dictator then, but these sanctions are a response to Russian hegemony and annexation of a foreign territory of Crimea, and above all Putin who behaves like a dictator too.
 
DaveFagan said:
Your analogy ignores reality.

Try Russia initiates coup to take over Canada. The US, with 25,000 soldiers at bases already leased
from pre-takeover Canada in Nova Scotia which was given to Canada by the US and has many US
natives, vote to allow annexation by US and not be ruled by an illegal coup.
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And this analogy is supposed to represent reality?
In what alternate universe?
 
annata said:
Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'


some colorful language -read other sources for more in depth.
He also mention US torture post 9-11, and lashes out at a question about political reform.

Be interesting to see if Russia can diversify from an extractive economy; or as McCain called it
"a glorified gas station"
EDIT: his annual news conference
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Not on a chain per say, but just to not be a dick. I think we'd be happy with that.
 
joko104 said:
A few years ago I spoke to a Kuwaiti businessman who moved to the USA. In his view Kuwait was a victim of both Iraq and then the USA.
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So this Kuwaiti feels he was a victim of the U.S., that it took advantage of Kuwait, but he moved here? How curious. I suppose he stops short of saying we should have let Saddam have it so he could continue his brutal occupation?

Anyway, if that's the way he feels about the U.S. then he should go back to Kuwait. We already have enough people in this country who don't appreciate it. We don't need more.
 
Simpleχity;1064110968 said:
I had little quarrel with Russia until it leaped over the border with troops and tanks.


Then I suggest you contact your government representatives. Both houses of Congress voted *unanimously* to pass the Ukraine Freedom Act of 2014 and Obama *signed it* into law.

New sanctions were imposed on Crimea yesterday.

US hits Crimea with new sanctions

EU approves new Crimea sanctions
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i am already aware that our government is almost unanimously interventionist. i don't need links to prove it; we've maintained a nearly constant state of war for decades, and for the most of the 20th century.
 
Cryptic said:
This is going to make things very difficult for Russia.

Russia is facing sanctions and fast moving market situations. The sanctions are being implemented by people who can draw on a huge amount of first hand and institutional knowledge on how international currency, oil, banking etc markets work and where to apply pressure.

Meanwhile, Russia has only been capitalist for twenty years. As such, they lack the institutional knowledge on how to counter the effects of the sanctions. And.... some, or many, of Russian decision makers may also lack first hand knowledge and the academic talent to offer effective solutions.

All the more reason for Putin to abandon his plans to turn Ukraine into a Russian protectorate and just be content with Crimea. He can still claim a huge victory. But, noooo.... Putin evidently responds with a 3.5 hour rambling speech.
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Generally agree with you except of few small points:
a. Russia as a whole has 0 years of experience of being capitalist (like US for instance) as the things that happened in the 90's and early 00's weren't capitalism but simply thievery on a scale of the entire country.
There are some professionals in every field, but as I said it is extremely hard for them to get to positions where they can actually change things.

b. Putin (according to what I know) never had plans to turn Ukraine into Russian "protectorate" (whatever this means in your context). This asinine "understanding" of the conflict is unfortunately shared by multiple so-called experts in the West, which in turn promote it to the levels gov. and the general population.

Didn't we already go through this discussion in some other thread?
When one starts to look closely at the nitty-gritty facts on the ground without injecting multiple assumptions the conclusions are sometimes drastically different from the ones you draw.

Fallen.
 
Ahlevah said:
So this Kuwaiti feels he was a victim of the U.S., that it took advantage of Kuwait, but he moved here? How curious. I suppose he stops short of saying we should have let Saddam have it so he could continue his brutal occupation?

Anyway, if that's the way he feels about the U.S. then he should go back to Kuwait. We already have enough people in this country who don't appreciate it. We don't need more.
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He appreciates the USA very much and wants to be one of us, not one of them - and Kuwaitis are one of them. That's his view of it. Go live with the winners and be one of them, not one of the losers and victims. A wise decision.
 
Fallenangel said:
Generally agree with you except of few small points:
a. Russia as a whole has 0 years of experience of being capitalist (like US for instance) as the things that happened in the 90's and early 00's weren't capitalism but simply thievery on a scale of the entire country.
There are some professionals in every field, but as I said it is extremely hard for them to get to positions where they can actually change things.

b. Putin (according to what I know) never had plans to turn Ukraine into Russian "protectorate" (whatever this means in your context). This asinine "understanding" of the conflict is unfortunately shared by multiple so-called experts in the West, which in turn promote it to the levels gov. and the general population.

Didn't we already go through this discussion in some other thread?
When one starts to look closely at the nitty-gritty facts on the ground without injecting multiple assumptions the conclusions are sometimes drastically different from the ones you draw.

Fallen.
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Turn, Putin has already made Crimea captured Russian territory, not a protectorate. He doesn't want to protect Eastern Ukraine. It wants its resources, land and industry.

Putin has the balls - and stupidity - to think that on his personality power he could take on every other oil interests country and entity in the world, kick NATO in the nuts, piss on the Saudis and start rolling into Eastern European countries - and everyone was supposed to tremble at him acting like a maniac with tacit threats of nuclear war.

No, Putin can not win an economic war with the rest of the world. The petroleum countries have opened their valves wide open. This is REALLY pissing off investors - who blame Putin - so the money people have turned on him. Others are taking him on because of ego and his now vulnerability. He can try to cut a long term deal with China - but those are some LONG pipelines to build. And he doesn't have the pipes.

Yeah he could take on the Ukraine. Take on all of Europe. But taking on the worldwide petroleum empire and the worldwide money people? Naw, nobody can do that. They're going to cut him down to submission or removal - Putin's choice.

The shelves are going bare, inflation is growing, the value of government and military paychecks is dwindling, the Russian oligarchs are increasingly bitching, a cold winter is coming, and the powerful people of the world are laughing at him. They don't see him as powerful, they see him as a foolish nutcase.
 
joko104 said:
Turn, Putin has already made Crimea captured Russian territory, not a protectorate. He doesn't want to protect Eastern Ukraine. It wants its resources, land and industry....
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I stopped reading after "it wants its resources, land and industry".
Please educate yourself a bit about Russia, the conflict in Ukraine and its chronology.

On a general note, that is exactly the problem I keep talking about.
People that don't know the difference between Prohorov and Prohanov keep spouting and promoting their "informed" opinions about Russia, Ukraine and the recent conflict... unfortunately ordinary people on both sides of the Pacific Ocean start drowning in these delusions.

Fallen.
 
Fallenangel said:
I stopped reading after "it wants its resources, land and industry".
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ITAR-TASS | Ukraine estimates lost Crimean shale gas resources at $40 billion

Ukraine estimated Crimean offshore gas resources at $40 billion, Ukrainian parliament-appointed Energy Minister Yuriy Prodan said in an interview to Brussels Euractiv media. "We have lost important areas on the Black Sea shelf. We estimate the losses at $40 billion as possible revenues from extraction of shale gas in Crimea," Prodan said.

As ITAR-TASS reported earlier, gas reserves in Crimea's territory were estimated at 165.3 billion cubic meters, oil at 47 million tonnes and gas condensate at 18.2 million tonnes. The figures were cited by Russian Natural Resources and Ecology Minister Sergei Donskoi. There are 44 hydrocarbon deposits in the peninsula's territory, including ten oil, 27 gas and seven gas condensate fields. In addition, there are five gas fields and three gas condensate fields on the shelf of the Black Sea, and six gas deposits in the Sea of Azov.
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Simpleχity;1064113870 said:
ITAR-TASS | Ukraine estimates lost Crimean shale gas resources at $40 billion
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And?!?...

According to a user on DP with a nick Fallenangel "the estimated Crimean offshore gas resources are at $1 billion...", see how easy it is.

Sometimes I think that you really have absolute no relation to Russia or Ukraine whatsoever, as your knowledge of these countries history, interests, and motivation is simply nonexistent.

Fallen.
 
He could always counter OPEC's dumping of their product by proxy.

Have Iran start escalating things to the point where they block off the Straights of Hormuz or bait Israel into a attack on Iran's Nuclear sites. Oil prices would shoot through the roof.
 
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