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Thread: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

  1. #31
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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i'd like to see us get out of the region almost entirely for thirty years at least to give it time to stabilize.

    some form of your approach could work.

    the world doesn't need a pro bono global policeman. if the world would like our help, and our help is absolutely necessary, then the region needs to fund it. no more pro bono war on the credit card. we need to spend that money elsewhere. the house is falling apart, and needs repair.
    We rarely do wars for others for free.

    For example, for the first Gulf War we billed Kuwait for every bullet, bomb, soldier - every penny spent. We brought all our Cold War old stuff from Europe and elsewhere - no longer needing it with the Soviet breakup and most of it old technology - and sold it at 100% retail to Kuwait. Kuwait, of course, had no choice but to agree - but then we own Kuwait anyway - an area of Iraq that had exactly zero population - declared it a new country with the head of the camel caravan the king - for which they got a 1/7th royalty for the oil. With such a tiny population, Kuwaitis became the wealthiest-per-person population in the world

    We did not fight for Kuwait freedom. We fought to keep our oil and we made the Kuwaitis pay for it. A few years ago I spoke to a Kuraiti businessman who moved to the USA. In his view Kuwait was a victim of both Iraq and then the USA. Even suggested the USA caused the war by false assurances to Saddam Hussein that we would just diplomatically oppose his taking Kuwait. But then when he did, we sent an absurdly large and expensive military force beyond anything needed and kept it up until the USA had "sold" Kuwait all our old military surplus at retail - to be paid by Kuwait out of their 1/7th royalty.

    A curious view. The USA doesn't go to war because America is nice. The USA has become so spoiled in hippy values, to be environmentally pure, totally safe workplaces, endless benefits, welfare etc etc - that trying to keep the USA from economic collapse with the lost industrial base and cheap labor in other countries taking the jobs is a very difficult balancing act - and military action and positioning is part of that complexity.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    empires fall. nations can last and thrive. we should be a nation first.
    How low should living standards go for your nation-only view? 25% 50% 75%? How much should social security, Medicare, Medicaid, Aid to Dependent Children, Disability payments be reduced?

    You also left off that nations often were wiped off the face of the earth - totally obliterated.

  3. #33
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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    Russian nationalism at work. He's still got high poll numbers there - a lot of support - not just from the old people who watch state TV.
    "Russian nationalism"

    Or...

    internet-memes-the-most-interesting-pm-in-the-world.jpg
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Ukraine has been independent and peaceful since the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991. Ukraine voluntarily relinquished all nuclear weapons on her territory (Budapest Memorandum) and declared itself a military neutral.

    Ukraine did not invade Russia. The regional hegemon you would entrust to maintain regional stability stole Crimea, and is deeply involved in planning/supporting/maintaining "frozen conflicts" in eastern Ukraine, the Caucases, and Transnistria.
    if the EU wants Ukraine to be part of Europe and it wants to get into a cold war type pissing match with Russia, then it is welcome to do so. as for the sanctions and the negative effect on the economy, they mostly just turn the Russian people against us. if Russia did something similar to us, we'd probably consider it an act of war.

    these sanctions and the resulting instability will unite Putin and the Russian people in a common struggle. they will have exactly the opposite of the intended effect.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    How low should living standards go for your nation-only view? 25% 50% 75%? How much should social security, Medicare, Medicaid, Aid to Dependent Children, Disability payments be reduced?

    You also left off that nations often were wiped off the face of the earth - totally obliterated.
    Don't succumb to the dynastic cycle, defy the **** out of it.

    (because that stupid theory is Chinese)
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    How low should living standards go for your nation-only view? 25% 50% 75%? How much should social security, Medicare, Medicaid, Aid to Dependent Children, Disability payments be reduced?
    if we stop spending trillions being the pro bono global police, then perhaps we'll be able to shore up those programs.

    i have a question, too : how much more are you personally willing to pay in taxes to maintain foreverwar?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You also left off that nations often were wiped off the face of the earth - totally obliterated.
    pretty much every empire ends up as a nation, if it's a lucky empire.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    We rarely do wars for others for free.

    For example, for the first Gulf War we billed Kuwait for every bullet, bomb, soldier - every penny spent. We brought all our Cold War old stuff from Europe and elsewhere - no longer needing it with the Soviet breakup and most of it old technology - and sold it at 100% retail to Kuwait. Kuwait, of course, had no choice but to agree - but then we own Kuwait anyway - an area of Iraq that had exactly zero population - declared it a new country with the head of the camel caravan the king - for which they got a 1/7th royalty for the oil. With such a tiny population, Kuwaitis became the wealthiest-per-person population in the world

    We did not fight for Kuwait freedom. We fought to keep our oil and we made the Kuwaitis pay for it. A few years ago I spoke to a Kuraiti businessman who moved to the USA. In his view Kuwait was a victim of both Iraq and then the USA. Even suggested the USA caused the war by false assurances to Saddam Hussein that we would just diplomatically oppose his taking Kuwait. But then when he did, we sent an absurdly large and expensive military force beyond anything needed and kept it up until the USA had "sold" Kuwait all our old military surplus at retail - to be paid by Kuwait out of their 1/7th royalty.

    A curious view. The USA doesn't go to war because America is nice. The USA has become so spoiled in hippy values, to be environmentally pure, totally safe workplaces, endless benefits, welfare etc etc - that trying to keep the USA from economic collapse with the lost industrial base and cheap labor in other countries taking the jobs is a very difficult balancing act - and military action and positioning is part of that complexity.
    dude, we just spent trillions on war while our economy crashed, and we borrowed to do it. we've maintained a nearly constant state of war in some form or another for decades. it just does not work, and never has.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    if the EU wants Ukraine to be part of Europe and it wants to get into a cold war type pissing match with Russia, then it is welcome to do so.
    The principle of sovereignty and secure borders concerns every nation of the world, not just Europe.

    General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region


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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The principle of sovereignty and secure borders concerns every nation of the world, not just Europe.

    General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region
    then don't recognize Crimea's annexation. that's fine. and if you're the US, while you're not recognizing it, fix your own neglected house.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Btw following today's talk just had to post this gem...note the bird in the right bottom corner LOL



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