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Thread: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    Russian nationalism at work. He's still got high poll numbers there - a lot of support - not just from the old people who watch state TV.
    If the economy collapses, they won't. The basic deal between Putin and the Russian people is "You can do whatever as long as it doesn't mess with my ability to make money."

    The thing to remember about Russia is this: In the West, our idea of the "ideal leader" is George Washington. In Russia, it's Ivan the Terrible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Good point.

    Though through various means including uhmm... "out raged patriots" beating up independent journalists and "Putin does not like your news, now all government liked cable providers (pretty much the only cable providers in Russia) suddenly refuse to carry it", state TV is becoming the only TV in Russia.

    That aside, Russian nationalism, as you mentioned, is a huge draw. The Economist , however, suggested that Russian are long conditioned to say one thing (tow the Soviet or the right wing nationalist line), while keeping true feelings private-until they boil over.

    Needless to say, such a boil over could make Putin very desperate. My guess is that the first places for a boil over wont be Moscow, but Tatarastan and Saint Petersbug. Saint Petersburg has always been more exposed to the west and might be less likely to blindly follow the: "Russian patriots support Putin, because then they would not be Russian patriots- and we are Russian patriots" type of "logic".
    Ironically, St. Petersburg is Putin's hometown.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'


    some colorful language -read other sources for more in depth.
    He also mention US torture post 9-11, and lashes out at a question about political reform.

    Be interesting to see if Russia can diversify from an extractive economy; or as McCain called it
    "a glorified gas station"
    EDIT: his annual news conference
    Owning a gas station is fine, if you don't bully your customers and their freinds.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    If the economy collapses, they won't. The basic deal between Putin and the Russian people is "You can do whatever as long as it doesn't mess with my ability to make money."

    The thing to remember about Russia is this: In the West, our idea of the "ideal leader" is George Washington. In Russia, it's Ivan the Terrible.
    Ivan the Terrible is as despised of a historical figure in Russia as Joseph Stalin.

    Peter the Great, maybe. Putin for sure. But not Ivan the Terrible.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Putin has been beating the drums of nationalism for years. Beating the idea that the "Russians deserved better" coming out of the Cold War.

    Russians should be grateful that the Cold War ended without a line of smoking craters where their beloved "Rodina" used to be.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Ironically, St. Petersburg is Putin's hometown.
    Good point, I forgot about that. I think his father was wounded defending the city as a naval infantryman. I think the Czars also viewed Saint Petersburg as not only their capital, but also their hometown.

    Even still, things boiled over in saint Petersburg first. I dont think Putin is facing anywhere near the pressure cooker that the Czar was. But... the people of Saint Petersburg have tasted some degrees of freedom for twenty years and may not be inclined to swallow nationalist slogans indefinetly- espescially if they are used to justify wars of aggression and a collapsing economy.

    Rather, their boiling point might come sooner, and with less heat than in the past.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    i've said this in other threads, but i'll say it again : we should not be involved in this. we should be building / repairing infrastructure, hiring people, and fixing our stupidly inefficient health care delivery model. being involved in a dick measuring contest with Russia does not help the US.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    What Putin says is true. We are conducting an "Economic War" against Russia.
    The sanctions are economic war and it is very likely that John Kerry's August
    trip to Saudi Arabia was to request for an OIL price drop to corral the Russian "Gas
    Station,(McCain), by squeezing the product that generates about 60% or more
    of the Russian economy. Keep in mind that Russia suffered 20 million casualties
    in WWII helping the allies snuff Hitler. We've been treating them like an enemy
    ever since. The backstory is that CORPORATISM is deathly afraid of Communism
    because it is labor oriented instead of Elitist Capital oriented. Russia's actions
    to co-ordinate the BRICS Nations and develop alternative banking, currency, and
    financing arrangements are what is behind the USA intrigue to bankrupt Russia.
    The USA is colluding with the World's largest banks and uses the power of the
    Reserve Currency against Russia. Russia must operate with its' own surplus
    capital whereas the USA continuously writes checks (new money/debt) to add
    to Trillions of dollars of debt that the money structure of the World must tolerate.
    Russia is organizing a threat to that Unlimited Debt hegemony. If China and India
    decide to help Russia with their large surpluses, Russia will recover more rapidly,
    Irregardless, Russia will recover and develop a more independent economy and, most
    definitely, an alternative banking environment. Russia is the new boogeyman of the
    "Mighty Wurlitzer" CIA generated narrative and big boost to the Military Industrial
    Corporate Complex that needs a focused potential enemy/threat to keep the DOLLARS
    flowing. Over 60% of the US economy goes to Military Offense. Does that make people
    proud? I don't think so.
    Hi Dave.
    I think Saudi Arabia is tolerating the low oil prices to keep market shares (futures) since they have SO much reserves,
    but who knows what goes on behind closed doors -and we do have a crazed relationship with that Wahhabi monster..I dunno.

    I'm not all that skilled in economics, so I'll just take your points - but no doubt Russia was meddling in Donbass ( eastern Uk.)
    whatever the right or wrong about Crimea. Some say it had to be seized because of Sevastopol Naval Base.
    but trying to federalize the Uk is just plain hegemony by Putin.

    From what I know there was a recent cease fire there, but I don't feel like looking it all up.
    So to say Russia is the new Boogeyman is true, but it's the same old boogeyman - and with Putin showing he is willing
    to take real economic hardship for territory mean he has to be considered a threat to say the Baltics.

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i've said this in other threads, but i'll say it again : we should not be involved in this. we should be building / repairing infrastructure, hiring people, and fixing our stupidly inefficient health care delivery model. being involved in a dick measuring contest with Russia does not help the US.
    should we not have used sanctions in tandem with Europe?
    Did we send requested military aid to Uk? (no)

    Putin's land grab violating the Budapest Memorandum
    The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan. As a result Ukraine gave up the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile between 1994 and 1996,[2][3] of which Ukraine had physical though not operational control. The use of the weapons was dependent on Russian controlled electronic Permissive Action Links and the Russian command and control system
    Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ....just forget about it all?

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    Re: Putin: West wants to put Russian bear 'on a chain'

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    Be interesting to see if Russia can diversify from an extractive economy...
    Economic diversification requires time, investment, and flexibility for risk taking. A crisis can accelerate such efforts, but there are no short cuts. With Russia facing a volatile currency, investment restrictions, and some illiberal rules that can skew investments, such an effort will be particularly challenging. Once oil prices rebound--and like other commodities, big swings occur fairly frequently--the temptation to de-emphasize economic diversification could be great.

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