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Thread: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    That is a very inaccurate statement of the economic hardships that other countries are facing. Very little of it comes from healthcare for the general population. Most of it comes from the additional costs of an aging population and rebuilding their economics after international private interests screwed everything up during the previous decade. Most nations with universal healthcare systems pay for them easily and have significantly better results and higher approval among their citizens than our system does.



    As it turns out, liberty has nothing to do with money in your pocket. It has to do with the options you have to determine the direction of your life. I can see why you resent taxation. Most of your taxes (and mine) go to making rich people richer. But that's a flaw in the priorities of our government (which would be solved by a stronger, not weaker, public sphere), not in the principle of public interest. Those nations get a lot more value for their tax money than we do. That's because they believe in robust public spending, rather than insane defense spending (which is a corporate windfall), a public healthcare system based around increasing the power of private healthcare (which is a corporate windfall), and huge corporate subsidies (which are a corporate windfall). If our tax money was being spent on the public like theirs is, you'd probably feel a lot better about spending it.
    The big beneficiaries are healthcare providers, not insurance companies. Health insurance lines hold around 1/14th to 1/15th the reserves that life insurance lines do. It is reflective of it being a money in-money out type of insurance that relies heavily on premiums and not investments to cover costs. On a side note, this is also why low interest rates are bad for some companies. Close to 70% of the combined reserves of all insurance companies are invested in bonds.

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I think our priorities should be the Constitution and Bill of Rights, how about you?
    The government is allowed to annex private property into the commonwealth as long as it provides compensation at a fair market value. Pre-14th amendment state governments could have taken this to the extent of going full socialist if they wanted to.

    In this case, it sounds like the single payer system was going to compete with private insurance. It might strike some as bad taste to for a civic institution that draws a huge revenues through taxes to compete with private businesses who have harder resource limits, but there's no constitutional right to non-competitive behavior from the commonwealth, particularly in an era where private corporations are threatening to uproot their wealth and migrate to a different state or country when posed with the first inconvenience.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 12-20-14 at 04:27 AM.
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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The government is allowed to annex private property into the commonwealth as long as it provides compensation at a fair market value. Pre-14th amendment state governments could have taken this to the extent of going full socialist if they wanted to.
    That power should stripped from the government, and frankly, the only fair compensation is one that is agreed upon.

    In this case, it sounds like the single payer system was going to compete with private insurance. It might strike some as bad taste to for a civic institution that draws a huge revenues through taxes to compete with private businesses who have harder resource limits, but there's no constitutional right to non-competitive behavior from the commonwealth, particularly in an era where private corporations are threatening to uproot their wealth and migrate to a different state or country when posed with the first inconvenience.
    So instead of acting in civil manner and giving companies a reason to not leave to less controlling/less taxed/lower wage states or countries the solution is that the public sphere should compete with the private sphere? I can't say I'm surprised so many people agree with your view. Personally though, I think its very sad that people are leaning more and more on government.

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    As it turns out, liberty has nothing to do with money in your pocket. It has to do with the options you have to determine the direction of your life.
    So when a man is robbed his options in life aren't limited? Interesting. So basically if everything in my home gets stolen somehow all the things I could have done with that property taken from me I can still do. I was unaware that if my TV was stolen that I could still watch it. Pretty epic. Gosh, I guess I shouldn't worry about a considerable sum of my earnings being taken by the government because I can still spend it like that never happened according to you.
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-20-14 at 04:48 AM.

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That power should stripped from the government, and frankly, the only fair compensation is one that is agreed upon.
    There have been moments where I could almost agree, but rarely on behalf of the rich and powerful.

    So instead of acting in civil manner and giving companies a reason to not leave to less controlling/less taxed/lower wage states or countries the solution is that the public sphere should compete with the private sphere? I can't say I'm surprised so many people agree with your view. Personally though, I think its very sad that people are leaning more and more on government.
    What's good for the goose is good for the gander, plus other expressions about, "playing with fire." Towns and states suffering from capital flight rarely have the ability to give companies a reason to stay other than moral reasons like, "your business is part of our community, and part of our identity as a people -- we've invested in each other and helped one another grow, " which shareholders rarely find convincing.

    Fact is, having wealth and political standing entails making hard power calculations about how the people around you are going to respond to your actions in the long term and whether they'll attempt to displace your way of life with a different system of economic organization. That's the case in anarchy as well as representative democracy.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    This country has terrible priorities.
    Not killing your local economy with massive tax increases IS having your priorities in order.

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Are you actually asking me?

    Or are you just using my post as a jumping off point to make some obscure or, maybe, sarcastic statement?
    It was sarcasm.

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Not killing your local economy with massive tax increases IS having your priorities in order.
    Supporting private sector health care is more resource inefficient in the long term. The public of Vermont will be spending much more money on that over the course of lives than they would have on taxes.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Supporting private sector health care is more resource inefficient in the long term. The public of Vermont will be spending much more money on that over the course of lives than they would have on taxes.
    Credible source for that statement?

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    Re: Vermont Bails on Single-Payer Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Credible source for that statement?
    It

    Although I'm not sure how you could expect things to be different. You're a car salesman's best friend if you buy a new car every year. The purpose of private health care is to make you pay as much as the market can humanly endure, whereas governments are answerable to the people for making the most economic use of tax revenue; a politician who fails to make the single payer system work is out of the job, whereas human biology requires that there will always be a surplus consumption for private health care.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

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