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Thread: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Don't hold your breath for a pro Obama rant, he is the one perpetrating this mistake.

    They are a totalitarian regime. Political prisoners. State sponsor of terrorism. Oppressive, communist dictatorship. And we should ignore that and just open an embassy in Havana? Are you kidding? I see no upside. What upside are you seeing? And don't tell me that if we are nice to them they will change. And we get what in return?
    Why not? We do so with Saudi Arabia and did it with China. And look how things have opened more and benefitted the people in China.

    The upside is the people will benefit. Raul is open to this, so if change is acceptable by the Castros, then there is more likelihood it will continue after they are gone, since the underpinnings are being established.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In order to recommence diplomatic relations with Cuba Obama might have done some negotiating on the human rights issue, for example. Apparently this was not done.
    Like we do so much for human rights in Saudi Arabia whom we bend over backwards for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Marco Rubio is an ass and just mad that Obama stole his thunder. Yeah...we'll be waiting and waiting and waiting....and so will the Cuban people.

    And hey, maybe Obama did it so Rubio cant take credit later and (supposedly) increase his chance at the White House.

    Seems like perfectly normal politics to me.
    WTH? Did you not read through this thread? The first one to come out against Obama was a Democrat, Senator Menendez of New Jersey who is over the committee currently in the Senate. He was left out of the loop of all of Obama's backdoor deals in regard to Cuba and is vehemently against them. When he loses his chair this month to a Republican, he openly asked that the Republican fight Obama's decision to push this through with another EO. This is an issue that has support for or against on both sides of the aisle. For you to try and make a claim that this is somehow a political stunt by Rubio is BS to the 10th degree.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    WTH? Did you not read through this thread? The first one to come out against Obama was a Democrat, Senator Menendez of New Jersey who is over the committee currently in the Senate. He was left out of the loop of all of Obama's backdoor deals in regard to Cuba and is vehemently against them. When he loses his chair this month to a Republican, he openly asked that the Republican fight Obama's decision to push this through with another EO. This is an issue that has support for or against on both sides of the aisle. For you to try and make a claim that this is somehow a political stunt by Rubio is BS to the 10th degree.
    No I havent finished the thread and may not even do so.

    Another politician's actions dont change Rubio's and Rubio is the one who I heard making the statements on the news.

    And political moves and stunts are.....politics. I gave reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Indeed. And belittling Congress and trying to marginalize their role in the governance of America is just the ticket to smoothing over differences and getting everyone on that bipartisan bandwagon.

    But hey, since I consider Democrats in the White House to be a blight on world issues, I have no serious problem with Obama destroying the Democrat brand over his remaining two years.
    They are marginalizing themselves. They have proven clearly that they put their infighting above the interests of the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    the embargo is worthless as a changer of Cuban internal or externals. The sole reason t keep it on was supposed to be some kina pressure on the regime when the Castros die off to force a democratic transition.

    Whatever you think of the Cuban gov't (not much )-whatever reasons for the Cuban revolutions - they wound up swapping
    one set off problems for the people to another.
    The regime/transition is just not amendable to US pressures or sanctions .
    Last edited by annata; 01-03-15 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    No I havent finished the thread and may not even do so.

    Another politician's actions dont change Rubio's and Rubio is the one who I heard making the statements on the news.

    And political moves and stunts are.....politics. I gave reasons.
    Well maybe you should go do a search on what Senator Menedez (D) NJ stated before Rubio ever made a public statement before coming to such feckless conclusions. You obviously have not looked at this issue on both sides. For those who are against Obama's actions have a very compelling argument.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Well maybe you should go do a search on what Senator Menedez (D) NJ stated before Rubio ever made a public statement before coming to such feckless conclusions. You obviously have not looked at this issue on both sides. For those who are against Obama's actions have a very compelling argument.
    There are 2 sides. One took way too long and lost it's chance at getting credit. The other accomplished it. IMO, from what I read, Rubio made it sound like other countries' human rights were our responsibility. Uh huh...only when we decide we care about those human rights for our own ends. Like hands off Saudi Arabia, like opening up diplomatically to communist China (oh heh...sounds familiar) and seeing a difference made there.....

    Rubio:

    “These changes will lead to legitimacy for a government that shamelessly, continuously abuses human rights,” he said. “But it will not lead to assistance for those whose rights are being abused. It is just another concession to a tyranny – by the Obama administration – rather than a defense of every universal and inalienable right that our country was founded on and stands for."


    Again, it's not our job to change other govts and make them conform to our idea of democracy. See how well that worked out in Iraq? We are completely selective about it, based on *our own interests.* Again: Saudi Arabia.

    Rubio is just a kid who lost the game and is mad. And working with the Pope, there's certainly a good chance at change for the better for the people.
    Last edited by Lursa; 01-03-15 at 07:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    the embargo is worthless as a changer of Cuban internal or externals. The sole reason t keep it on was supposed to be some kina pressure on the regime when the Castros die off to force a democratic transition.

    Whatever you think of the Cuban gov't (not much )-whatever reasons for the Cuban revolutions - they wound up swapping
    one set off problems for the people to another.
    The regime/transition is just not amendable to US pressures or sanctions .
    Sanctions can only work if the people will rise up and force change or if the reigning power cares about the people. For 50 yrs neither has come about in Cuba. NK certainly doesnt care and it's people are too downtrodden and starved to rise up. We can name others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Sanctions can only work if the people will rise up and force change or if the reigning power cares about the people. For 50 yrs neither has come about in Cuba. NK certainly doesnt care and it's people are too downtrodden and starved to rise up. We can name others.
    pretty much so. North Korea and many totalitarian regimes have the army/police to enforce despotic rule,
    so it's costly for the people to rise up. Cuba isn't any different and that makes it very difficult for another revolution of the Cuban people.
    Cuba

    Cuba is a totalitarian state controlled by Fidel Castro, who is chief of state, head of government, First Secretary of the PCC, and commander in chief of the armed forces. Castro seeks to control most aspects of Cuban life through the Communist Party and its affiliated mass organizations, the government bureaucracy, and the state security apparatus.

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