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Thread: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    There are plenty on the left and the right that have no appreciation in the way Obama goes about implementing his (progressive) "Change". You see they have a respect for our laws and Constitution and find his flagrant disregard for it by so often making himself a government of "one" very dangerous. Whatever he can't get passed in Congress, he announces a new E.O. to get what he wants. If changing laws/policies were suppose to be so damn easy, our free republic would have never been designed to include a Congress. Just a president with a pen!
    Either Obama uses his legal authority to accomplish his agenda or he gets nothing done. If Obama is abusing his authority, take him to task on it. Sue him and/or impeach him.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Oh yes there has been legislation passed in the house that would allow more affordable healthcare without the boondoggle of Obamacare. But it sits on the shelf in Harry Reid's office. And what good would it do to send it to Obama's desk after Republicans take control of the Senate. You think he would sign it? Ha ha.

    Now a brief history lesson on Cuba. The first partial embargo on Cuba was implemented under Eisenhower when the Castro regime took power. Since Eisenhower, they progressively became more strict starting with Kennedy and Johnson for good reason. The Castro regime was in bed with the Soviet Union. Funny yesterday, Obama in his speech mentioned the Bay of Pigs but failed to mention that Cuba had Soviet missles pointed directly at us. Cuba under Communist rule was able to sustain itself but when their bed partner, the Soviet Union, fell things really started to crumble within Cuba. But then along came Hugo Chavez. With the Soviet Union after the collapse started treating Cuba like nothing more than a satellite country, Hugo came to save the day to the last bastion of totalitarianism in the Western Hemisphere long past its sell-by date. For Fidel, who had had his eyes on Venezuela's oil riches since the 1960s, Chávez's election was an unbelievable stroke of luck. Much has been written about the way Venezuela stepped in to fill the fiscal void the collapse of the Soviet Union left in Cuba, but the reality is much stranger than that. Venezuela effectively wrote a fat petro check month after month to Cuba. Cuban flags eventually flew above Venezuelan military bases and Venezuelans witnessed their democratically elected president telling them that Venezuela and Cuba share "a single government" and that Venezuela "has two presidents."

    Now Chevaz is dead, oil has been dropping in price per barrel for a number of reasons which is Venezuela's number #1 source of revenue causing it's economy to hit the skids and Cuba too. Just where we want the Castro regime. And what does Obama do? Sends Castro a life line. Marvelous.

    Now Obama claims, now, that all this will benefit the people of Cuba. How? Because other Latin governments opposed our Cuba policy but will now join us in pressing Cuba for human-rights improvements. Even members in his own party know that is a bunch of crap served on a silver platter. Does anyone believe Rousseff in Brazil or Bachelet in Chile (much less the Bolivian or Venezuelan or Ecuadorian leftist strongmen) will now suddenly turn tough on the Castro brothers? The White House also says economic progress in Cuba will lead to political progress. Really? Has it in other Communist countries such as China or Vietnam?
    So the question you should be asking yourself is why did the president act, if there will be no change in Cuban foreign or domestic policies? There is no good reason other than ideology.


    The only way to deal with a rogue president is either sue him in court over every individual occurrence or impeach him. They have already taken him to court over his abuse of powers in Obamacare which is still pending. Over two dozen states are suing Obama over his E.O. amnesty. And Republicans have just recently gained back control of the Senate in the past election and the new members will not be sworn in until January. They have not been in a position to impeach him. The House of Representatives decides whether there are grounds to impeach a president, and the Senate conducts the impeachment trial. Hope it doesn't come to that, but if Obama continues to use his E.O. as a candy store for anything that suits his ideology, it will leave Congress no choice.
    Wow, where to begin?

    For one thing, there is no Soviet Union any longer. That Cuba was in bed with them is as irrelevant as that Spain was once a part of the Roman Empire. The cold war is over.

    Secondly, the US doesn't have a great track record at spreading democracy in Latin America. Think about Agusto Pinochet, as an example.

    Thirdly, Cuba has been a dictatorship for much longer than even Castro has been in power. It has never been a democracy, and isn't likely to become one due to the US trade embargo.

    And then there's the definition of insanity - continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different outcome. We've been trying to isolate Cuba for some 55 years now, and nothing has come of it.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Either Obama uses his legal authority to accomplish his agenda or he gets nothing done. If Obama is abusing his authority, take him to task on it. Sue him and/or impeach him.
    The House is currently suing the president. And ironically the lead council is a liberal professor of law, Jonathon Turley who has been very outspoken over Obama's pattern of abusing the executive branch. And like I stated in other posts, the Republicans will not be in position to even consider impeachment until after the new members of Congress are sworn in and gives the majority in both chambers. Hope it doesn't come to that, but if Obama continues down this path of abusing his powers, it leaves Congress little choice.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Except I'm 1) not blindly infatuated with Obama 2) making ridiculous arguments that conclude serious policy choices on an important topic developed over months of negotiation in partnership with the Vatican and your own country are petulant and childish, or 3) suggesting alternative methods that based on the evidence of the past 6 years, and especially the past 4, have an approximately zero chance of succeeding, not to mention an unbroken 50 year record of failure, at least half of that after it was clear our policy of boycott's and disengagement was having no effect at all on Casto's power.

    Besides, he made a policy choice solidly within his prerogatives. It's step one of many if we are to have normalized relations with Cuba, and the vast majority of those other steps will require Congressional approval, and if that's not done this latest move will ultimately change almost nothing.
    So, in other words, it was basically a useless move by a petulant President who can't get his own way so he resorts to stirring the pot with no solid policy conclusions. Just what I've been saying.

    And just to be clear, perhaps you can tell us what are the significant American national interests resulting from Obama's move?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    So, in other words, it was basically a useless move by a petulant President who can't get his own way so he resorts to stirring the pot with no solid policy conclusions. Just what I've been saying.

    And just to be clear, perhaps you can tell us what are the significant American national interests resulting from Obama's move?
    Hey embrace your president!U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Wow, where to begin?

    For one thing, there is no Soviet Union any longer. That Cuba was in bed with them is as irrelevant as that Spain was once a part of the Roman Empire. The cold war is over.

    Secondly, the US doesn't have a great track record at spreading democracy in Latin America. Think about Agusto Pinochet, as an example.

    Thirdly, Cuba has been a dictatorship for much longer than even Castro has been in power. It has never been a democracy, and isn't likely to become one due to the US trade embargo.

    And then there's the definition of insanity - continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different outcome. We've been trying to isolate Cuba for some 55 years now, and nothing has come of it.
    No there is no Soviet Union but there is still Communism and it is on the rise.

    You fail to take in account of the past fifty years that the embargo on Cuba would have worked if Cuba hadn't got lucky with Hugo Chavez. We were once again at a position where Cuba was ready to collapse and Obama steps in to save the day leaving less hope for the people of that country to ever taste democracy and the human rights violations will continue.

    We had a very good relationship with Cuba prior to the Castro regime. It was a hot spot for many Americans for travel. I have pictures of my grandparents vacationing there. So your point is invalid.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    No there is no Soviet Union but there is still Communism and it is on the rise.

    You fail to take in account of the past fifty years that the embargo on Cuba would have worked if Cuba hadn't got lucky with Hugo Chavez. We were once again at a position where Cuba was ready to collapse and Obama steps in to save the day leaving less hope for the people of that country to ever taste democracy and the human rights violations will continue.

    We had a very good relationship with Cuba prior to the Castro regime. It was a hot spot for many Americans for travel. I have pictures of my grandparents vacationing there. So your point is invalid.
    It was a hotspot for the mafia. And with the hotels and casinos it was a cash cow also.

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    No there is no Soviet Union but there is still Communism and it is on the rise.

    You fail to take in account of the past fifty years that the embargo on Cuba would have worked if Cuba hadn't got lucky with Hugo Chavez. We were once again at a position where Cuba was ready to collapse and Obama steps in to save the day leaving less hope for the people of that country to ever taste democracy and the human rights violations will continue.

    We had a very good relationship with Cuba prior to the Castro regime. It was a hot spot for many Americans for travel. I have pictures of my grandparents vacationing there. So your point is invalid.
    If by "worked" you mean having created widespread starvation in Cuba, then you have a point. I'm not sure just why anyone would have wished such a thing on the people of Cuba, however.

    And Communism is dead. Even China gave it up, as witness their booming capitalistic economy.

    And Cuba under Batista was no democracy. It might have been a terrific place to vacation, on that I'm not sure, but it certainly wasn't a democracy any more than it is today.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Rials6 View Post
    It was a hotspot for the mafia. And with the hotels and casinos it was a cash cow also.
    It was a beautiful place once upon a time. Beautiful beaches, hotels, superb restaurants and the warm hearts of the people were the gems of it all. They deserve so much more. But thanks to Obama, sending the Castro brothers a life-line while their economy crumbles will be enough to keep the regime running but not improve the lives of the people.

    Ironically, I read an article where the Chamber of Commerce was delighted over Obama's latest E.O. involving Cuba. But then again they were delighted over Obama's E.O. Amnesty as well. After all making money is what's important right? It doesn't matter if it screws our citizens out of jobs or the Cuban people of democracy, it's all about the money being top priority. Right?

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    Re: U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    And then there's the definition of insanity - continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different outcome. We've been trying to isolate Cuba for some 55 years now, and nothing has come of it.
    From what I've been hearing, I am literally on both sides of this...On the one hand I'd like to see the Cuban people have a better life, and prosper...On the other, I don't see what Obama got out of this....Correct me if I am wrong, but in a negotiation, aren't you supposed to get something for it?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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