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U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

Dittohead not! said:
I suppose. Is the problem with Cuba, then, that they're so much like the US? I mean, shooting down passenger planes, torturing prisoners, seizing American property (Jog's post) is that our job?
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Yeah they are so much like us.....we always march out mothers so they can watch their sons and daughter be executed. Then turn around and put a bullet in the backs of the Mothers heads. I suppose that's what makes us human so all should be forgotten, huh?

Do you think from now that all discussions should start off.....well the US is just as bad and here is why. Note how we do all the same things as tyrannical dictators do. Get that out of the way right away. So that we can embrace that equality you espouse so much.
 
clownboy said:
When it benefits us to change it, that's when. Are we going to start sending them foreign aid now? What's the upside in this, really?
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Wait and see. I predict American investment there, tourism, agricultural products bought and sold, natural resources bought, manufactured goods sold, a boon to both economies. Mostly to theirs, of course, since Cuba is a lot smaller than the US, but a mutual benefit at any rate. As for foreign aid, it's high time to put an end to that, particularly to countries that don't like the US.
 
MMC said:
Yeah they are so much like us.....we always march out mothers so they can watch their sons and daughter be executed. Then turn around and put a bullet in the backs of the Mothers heads. I suppose that's what makes us human so all should be forgotten, huh?

Do you think from now that all discussions should start off.....well the US is just as bad and here is why. Note how we do all the same things as tyrannical dictators do. Get that out of the way right away. So that we can embrace that equality you espouse so much.
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Well, you did bring up the airplane incident. Let the one without sin cast the first stone and all of that. The bottom line is that it's just foolish to continue to try to isolate Cuba due to its admittedly totalitarian government. Cuba is not a threat to the US. Opening diplomatic avenues and trade relations with Cuba is potentially a benefit to both our country and theirs. Moreover, we can exert some influence over Cuba if we have a trade/diplomatic relationship. If not, we have no influence over them at all. How would that benefit the Cuban people?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Wait and see. I predict American investment there, tourism, agricultural products bought and sold, natural resources bought, manufactured goods sold, a boon to both economies. Mostly to theirs, of course, since Cuba is a lot smaller than the US, but a mutual benefit at any rate. As for foreign aid, it's high time to put an end to that, particularly to countries that don't like the US.
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And we'd have all that and more by just letting the status quo be until they change their government. No dealing with dictators that way. We've been down this path before and it so rarely works out for us.

And once again, what natural resources? All the other stuff we already get, there's a world market out there.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Our own government seizes American's property with impunity, but then, that's another issue. So, how long should we wait to recognize Cuba? It's been 54 years now. Is 60 years long enough? A hundred? When?
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We elect our politicians. That might seem like nothing to you. But makes the difference.

When the assets are repossessed.
 
clownboy said:
And we'd have all that and more by just letting the status quo be until they change their government. No dealing with dictators that way. We've been down this path before and it so rarely works out for us.

And once again, what natural resources? All the other stuff we already get, there's a world market out there.
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Oh, we could just sit back and wait for things to change on their own. Such an isolationist sort of policy does have some appeal, or perhaps did a century ago. In many ways, we've gone way too far the other direction lately.

I wasn't sure just what natural resources Cuba actually had, so i looked it up here.

Natural resources include cobalt, nickel, iron ore, copper, manganese, salt, timber, silica, oil and petroleum.
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Not bad for a little island.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Well, you did bring up the airplane incident. Let the one without sin cast the first stone and all of that. The bottom line is that it's just foolish to continue to try to isolate Cuba due to its admittedly totalitarian government. Cuba is not a threat to the US. Opening diplomatic avenues and trade relations with Cuba is potentially a benefit to both our country and theirs. Moreover, we can exert some influence over Cuba if we have a trade/diplomatic relationship. If not, we have no influence over them at all. How would that benefit the Cuban people?
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It was just one of the things I brought up.....yes, lets always cast the stone at ourselves first. Like I said to embrace that equality we share so much. Did you have anything on the US marching out Mothers so they can watch their children be executed and then us putting a bullet in the back of the heads of those mothers? Over elections. Anything on that so we can share that equality?

Cuba is not a threat to the US why again? Not like what has taken place for the past 50 years helped with any of that, huh? Did you forget they use to have the 4th highest standard of living in this hemisphere before Castro?

Do you think we would have a better chance of doing anything.....with the Castros and their government out of the way?

Would it be better for the Cuban people to have free elections and decide who it is they want to govern over them? Is it better for the Cuban people to have the Castros and Communism out of power or better for the Cuban people to have them in power?
 
MMC said:
It was just one of the things I brought up.....yes, lets always cast the stone at ourselves first. Like I said to embrace that equality we share so much. Did you have anything on the US marching out Mothers so they can watch their children be executed and then us putting a bullet in the back of the heads of those mothers? Over elections. Anything on that so we can share that equality?

Cuba is not a threat to the US why again? Not like what has taken place for the past 50 years helped with any of that, huh? Did you forget they use to have the 4th highest standard of living in this hemisphere before Castro?

Do you think we would have a better chance of doing anything.....with the Castros and their government out of the way?

Would it be better for the Cuban people to have free elections and decide who it is they want to govern over them? Is it better for the Cuban people to have the Castros and Communism out of power or better for the Cuban people to have them in power?
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It would be better for the Cubans to have free elections, something that they have never had in their history. Are we to wait for that to happen before having trade and diplomatic relations? If we wait, it will likely never happen. If we don't, it just might.

And, if the Cubans had such a high standard of living under the dictator Batista, then it is most likely due to having a large and powerful trading partner so close, don't you think? It most certainly wouldn't have been due to having been free and democratic.
 
JasperL said:
Well, surely "communist" China is a bigger legacy, and when you buy your S&P 500 index fund, you invest in 500 countries that are actively propping up the largest communist country on the planet with roughly 150 times the population of Cuba, is an immeasurably greater long term communist threat to the U.S., and as a bonus has little regard for human rights and like all communist countries laughs at the notion of political freedom. Walmart is a worldwide outlet for communist made goods - I'd think the communist leaders get a kick out of the fact that one of America's richest families got there by selling communist goods, therefore promoting the interests of communists. The promoters and defenders of 'free trade' with China are many times more guilty of promoting the interests of communists than anyone involved in changing our relationship with Cuba. BTW, when has the U.S. ever had a philosophical problem propping up a military dictatorship? If they agree to serve our interests (i.e. cut the U.S. into a share of profits), we might have installed the dictator!
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Is it your understanding that China is still a communist nation, remaining the same as it was in the days of Mao Zedong?

It seems you're not all that familiar with the Cold War.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It would be better for the Cubans to have free elections, something that they have never had in their history. Are we to wait for that to happen before having trade and diplomatic relations? If we wait, it will likely never happen. If we don't, it just might.

And, if the Cubans had such a high standard of living under the dictator Batista, then it is most likely due to having a large and powerful trading partner so close, don't you think? It most certainly wouldn't have been due to having been free and democratic.
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Do you think those in exile, and the people of Cuba know that it is a matter of time and the Castros and their government will be out of power and that then they will be able to decide their course. How old are they again?

Was the Castros set up to fall? Were they failing? So now after they get caught up for more human rights violations.....what do we do, close this New Embassy up and then say it was a mistake.....or until you get Right, then we will return?
 
Kobie said:
Um, yeah, things are much different now.

The Cold War has been over for more than 20 years, yet some insist on continuing to fight it. Reminds me of the stories of shipwrecked Japanese sailors who were rescued decades after WWII but refused to believe the war had ended.
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The cold war? and what does that have to do with Cuba? They still are a murderous dictatorship, even with the same damn dictator! So why should we grant them normal relations? Please don't tell me you are so naive, like most of the left, to think that they will spread the wealth around to the people they have been oppressing for 50+ years.

Oh, and God help those idiots that end up in the Havana embassy. Obama doesn't have a great track record protecting our people. Make sure that life insurance is paid up.
 
Dittohead not! said:
They can not be a communist country and at the same time be a capitalist country.

The two ideologies are not compatible. Either the government owns everything, or it does not. in capitalism, it does not.
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But they are in China. Their economic system is called a socialist market system. The state pretty much owns their corporations and anything else related to business is controlled through the bank which is also controlled by the state. Their government is based on Marxism–Leninism and Mao Zedong thought
 
Anthony60 said:
The cold war? and what does that have to do with Cuba? They still are a murderous dictatorship, even with the same damn dictator! So why should we grant them normal relations? Please don't tell me you are so naive, like most of the left, to think that they will spread the wealth around to the people they have been oppressing for 50+ years.

Oh, and God help those idiots that end up in the Havana embassy. Obama doesn't have a great track record protecting our people. Make sure that life insurance is paid up.
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Oh, maybe establishing somewhat normal relations with Cuba might help it NOT be a "murderous dictatorship"?

Number of people killed in American embassies = 0. Benghazi was a diplomatic compound in the middle of a ****ing WAR ZONE.
 
Dittohead not! said:
They can not be a communist country and at the same time be a capitalist country.

The two ideologies are not compatible. Either the government owns everything, or it does not. in capitalism, it does not.
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Has there ever truly been a communist country under that definition? The government has never owned everything anywhere. There are varying levels. I would not argue that US is a communist country because it owned part of the GM for a period of time. And I would not argue that China is a capitalist nation because there are some small private businesses. When calling countries communist or capitalist, there is a lot of in between area.
 
MMC said:
Do you think those in exile, and the people of Cuba know that it is a matter of time and the Castros and their government will be out of power and that then they will be able to decide their course. How old are they again?

Was the Castros set up to fall? Were they failing? So now after they get caught up for more human rights violations.....what do we do, close this New Embassy up and then say it was a mistake.....or until you get Right, then we will return?
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The exiles seem to be doing rather well in Florida. The older generation may want to go back once Castro is gone, but the younger ones are Americans now.
Were they set up to fail? If they were, it didn't work, did it? They've been in power since 1960.

If there are human rights violations in the future, we will be able to impose sanctions. What would we do currently?
 
Blue_State said:
Has there ever truly been a communist country under that definition? The government has never owned everything anywhere. There are varying levels. I would not argue that US is a communist country because it owned part of the GM for a period of time. And I would not argue that China is a capitalist nation because there are some small private businesses. When calling countries communist or capitalist, there is a lot of in between area.
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The old Soviet Union was Communist under any definition but the pie in the sky "no government at all, everyone lives peacefully and contributes equally" pipe dream. There no longer is a Soviet Union. China under Mao was Communist, and failing to even feed its population. It is no longer Communist under any reasonable definition of the term. Communism is dead. Totalitarianism lives on, to be sure, but not communism.
 
Fearandloathing said:
There is nothing to fear in Cuba.

There are endless business possibilities and the as a resort destination there is none better in the Spanish Speaking world.

Which is why I oppose this. US investment and tourism will ruin it.
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I love those people. Best two weeks I ever spent in a warm-weather destination was in Cuba. I selfishly want there to be no opening of the border to American tourism but I really hope for more prosperity and a more liberal government for those people.
It's a unique experience travelling there, staying in casas particulaire, eating in paladares, crowding into small venues with wonderful music and pro baseball in small ballparks and the atmosphere is without exception welcoming for the Canadian and European tourists.
 
vesper said:
But they are in China. Their economic system is called a socialist market system. The state pretty much owns their corporations and anything else related to business is controlled through the bank which is also controlled by the state. Their government is based on Marxism–Leninism and Mao Zedong thought
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Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

China has an unusual system, but it works for them. They took the best from our system and meshed it with theirs, it appears. They even encourage their people to buy gold and silver, and hang on to what they buy - no in-and-out trading! Wonder what they're thinking? They are spearheading the effort to have a basket of currencies to replace our "petro-dollar" as the accepted global currency, too, and I read recently that the IMF may be in favor of that. They seem to think very long range as supposed to us, but they are making it work for them, plus they have become a trading partner with Russia, and many other large countries around the world while we're bogged down in a religious war in the ME. They have even been trading with Cuba for a long time, and although I don't see the benefit from that, they must or they wouldn't bother. Interesting people....
 
Grand Mal said:
I love those people. Best two weeks I ever spent in a warm-weather destination was in Cuba. I selfishly want there to be no opening of the border to American tourism but I really hope for more prosperity and a more liberal government for those people.
It's a unique experience travelling there, staying in casas particulaire, eating in paladares, crowding into small venues with wonderful music and pro baseball in small ballparks and the atmosphere is without exception welcoming for the Canadian and European tourists.
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So, the Canadians want to keep it all to themselves. Oh, well, the US does have places of its own with warm water and sandy beaches.
 
polgara said:
China has an unusual system, but it works for them. They took the best from our system and meshed it with theirs, it appears.
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Human, civil, labor and environmental rights are not recognized.
 
ecofarm said:
Human, civil, labor and environmental rights are not recognized.
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Greetings, ecofarm. :2wave:

I understand that China has said it will not be ready to join in on global climate change rules until 2030? This on top of them getting the okay from us to build dozens of coal-fired utilities in the meantime, while the EPA is in the process of shutting our coal-burning utilities down? What's going on? :shock:
 
polgara said:
Greetings, ecofarm. :2wave:

I understand that China has said it will not be ready to join in on global climate change rules until 2030? This on top of them getting the okay from us to build dozens of coal-fired utilities in the meantime, while the EPA is in the process of shutting our coal-burning utilities down? What's going on? :shock:
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Same ol' same ol'.
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, the Canadians want to keep it all to themselves. Oh, well, the US does have places of its own with warm water and sandy beaches.
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(grin!)
We have them, too, but the shelf life is a couple of months, tops. I know several Canucks who bail every October to a more, um, salubrious climate in the US.
 
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