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U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

There are plenty on the left and the right that have no appreciation in the way Obama goes about implementing his (progressive) "Change". You see they have a respect for our laws and Constitution and find his flagrant disregard for it by so often making himself a government of "one" very dangerous. Whatever he can't get passed in Congress, he announces a new E.O. to get what he wants. If changing laws/policies were suppose to be so damn easy, our free republic would have never been designed to include a Congress. Just a president with a pen!

Either Obama uses his legal authority to accomplish his agenda or he gets nothing done. If Obama is abusing his authority, take him to task on it. Sue him and/or impeach him.
 
Oh yes there has been legislation passed in the house that would allow more affordable healthcare without the boondoggle of Obamacare. But it sits on the shelf in Harry Reid's office. And what good would it do to send it to Obama's desk after Republicans take control of the Senate. You think he would sign it? Ha ha.

Now a brief history lesson on Cuba. The first partial embargo on Cuba was implemented under Eisenhower when the Castro regime took power. Since Eisenhower, they progressively became more strict starting with Kennedy and Johnson for good reason. The Castro regime was in bed with the Soviet Union. Funny yesterday, Obama in his speech mentioned the Bay of Pigs but failed to mention that Cuba had Soviet missles pointed directly at us. Cuba under Communist rule was able to sustain itself but when their bed partner, the Soviet Union, fell things really started to crumble within Cuba. But then along came Hugo Chavez. With the Soviet Union after the collapse started treating Cuba like nothing more than a satellite country, Hugo came to save the day to the last bastion of totalitarianism in the Western Hemisphere long past its sell-by date. For Fidel, who had had his eyes on Venezuela's oil riches since the 1960s, Chávez's election was an unbelievable stroke of luck. Much has been written about the way Venezuela stepped in to fill the fiscal void the collapse of the Soviet Union left in Cuba, but the reality is much stranger than that. Venezuela effectively wrote a fat petro check month after month to Cuba. Cuban flags eventually flew above Venezuelan military bases and Venezuelans witnessed their democratically elected president telling them that Venezuela and Cuba share "a single government" and that Venezuela "has two presidents."

Now Chevaz is dead, oil has been dropping in price per barrel for a number of reasons which is Venezuela's number #1 source of revenue causing it's economy to hit the skids and Cuba too. Just where we want the Castro regime. And what does Obama do? Sends Castro a life line. Marvelous.

Now Obama claims, now, that all this will benefit the people of Cuba. How? Because other Latin governments opposed our Cuba policy but will now join us in pressing Cuba for human-rights improvements. Even members in his own party know that is a bunch of crap served on a silver platter. Does anyone believe Rousseff in Brazil or Bachelet in Chile (much less the Bolivian or Venezuelan or Ecuadorian leftist strongmen) will now suddenly turn tough on the Castro brothers? The White House also says economic progress in Cuba will lead to political progress. Really? Has it in other Communist countries such as China or Vietnam?
So the question you should be asking yourself is why did the president act, if there will be no change in Cuban foreign or domestic policies? There is no good reason other than ideology.


The only way to deal with a rogue president is either sue him in court over every individual occurrence or impeach him. They have already taken him to court over his abuse of powers in Obamacare which is still pending. Over two dozen states are suing Obama over his E.O. amnesty. And Republicans have just recently gained back control of the Senate in the past election and the new members will not be sworn in until January. They have not been in a position to impeach him. The House of Representatives decides whether there are grounds to impeach a president, and the Senate conducts the impeachment trial. Hope it doesn't come to that, but if Obama continues to use his E.O. as a candy store for anything that suits his ideology, it will leave Congress no choice.

Wow, where to begin?

For one thing, there is no Soviet Union any longer. That Cuba was in bed with them is as irrelevant as that Spain was once a part of the Roman Empire. The cold war is over.

Secondly, the US doesn't have a great track record at spreading democracy in Latin America. Think about Agusto Pinochet, as an example.

Thirdly, Cuba has been a dictatorship for much longer than even Castro has been in power. It has never been a democracy, and isn't likely to become one due to the US trade embargo.

And then there's the definition of insanity - continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different outcome. We've been trying to isolate Cuba for some 55 years now, and nothing has come of it.
 
Either Obama uses his legal authority to accomplish his agenda or he gets nothing done. If Obama is abusing his authority, take him to task on it. Sue him and/or impeach him.
The House is currently suing the president. And ironically the lead council is a liberal professor of law, Jonathon Turley who has been very outspoken over Obama's pattern of abusing the executive branch. And like I stated in other posts, the Republicans will not be in position to even consider impeachment until after the new members of Congress are sworn in and gives the majority in both chambers. Hope it doesn't come to that, but if Obama continues down this path of abusing his powers, it leaves Congress little choice.
 
Except I'm 1) not blindly infatuated with Obama 2) making ridiculous arguments that conclude serious policy choices on an important topic developed over months of negotiation in partnership with the Vatican and your own country are petulant and childish, or 3) suggesting alternative methods that based on the evidence of the past 6 years, and especially the past 4, have an approximately zero chance of succeeding, not to mention an unbroken 50 year record of failure, at least half of that after it was clear our policy of boycott's and disengagement was having no effect at all on Casto's power.

Besides, he made a policy choice solidly within his prerogatives. It's step one of many if we are to have normalized relations with Cuba, and the vast majority of those other steps will require Congressional approval, and if that's not done this latest move will ultimately change almost nothing.

So, in other words, it was basically a useless move by a petulant President who can't get his own way so he resorts to stirring the pot with no solid policy conclusions. Just what I've been saying.

And just to be clear, perhaps you can tell us what are the significant American national interests resulting from Obama's move?
 
So, in other words, it was basically a useless move by a petulant President who can't get his own way so he resorts to stirring the pot with no solid policy conclusions. Just what I've been saying.

And just to be clear, perhaps you can tell us what are the significant American national interests resulting from Obama's move?
Hey embrace your president![emoji6]
 
Wow, where to begin?

For one thing, there is no Soviet Union any longer. That Cuba was in bed with them is as irrelevant as that Spain was once a part of the Roman Empire. The cold war is over.

Secondly, the US doesn't have a great track record at spreading democracy in Latin America. Think about Agusto Pinochet, as an example.

Thirdly, Cuba has been a dictatorship for much longer than even Castro has been in power. It has never been a democracy, and isn't likely to become one due to the US trade embargo.

And then there's the definition of insanity - continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different outcome. We've been trying to isolate Cuba for some 55 years now, and nothing has come of it.
No there is no Soviet Union but there is still Communism and it is on the rise.

You fail to take in account of the past fifty years that the embargo on Cuba would have worked if Cuba hadn't got lucky with Hugo Chavez. We were once again at a position where Cuba was ready to collapse and Obama steps in to save the day leaving less hope for the people of that country to ever taste democracy and the human rights violations will continue.

We had a very good relationship with Cuba prior to the Castro regime. It was a hot spot for many Americans for travel. I have pictures of my grandparents vacationing there. So your point is invalid.
 
No there is no Soviet Union but there is still Communism and it is on the rise.

You fail to take in account of the past fifty years that the embargo on Cuba would have worked if Cuba hadn't got lucky with Hugo Chavez. We were once again at a position where Cuba was ready to collapse and Obama steps in to save the day leaving less hope for the people of that country to ever taste democracy and the human rights violations will continue.

We had a very good relationship with Cuba prior to the Castro regime. It was a hot spot for many Americans for travel. I have pictures of my grandparents vacationing there. So your point is invalid.
It was a hotspot for the mafia. And with the hotels and casinos it was a cash cow also.
 
No there is no Soviet Union but there is still Communism and it is on the rise.

You fail to take in account of the past fifty years that the embargo on Cuba would have worked if Cuba hadn't got lucky with Hugo Chavez. We were once again at a position where Cuba was ready to collapse and Obama steps in to save the day leaving less hope for the people of that country to ever taste democracy and the human rights violations will continue.

We had a very good relationship with Cuba prior to the Castro regime. It was a hot spot for many Americans for travel. I have pictures of my grandparents vacationing there. So your point is invalid.

If by "worked" you mean having created widespread starvation in Cuba, then you have a point. I'm not sure just why anyone would have wished such a thing on the people of Cuba, however.

And Communism is dead. Even China gave it up, as witness their booming capitalistic economy.

And Cuba under Batista was no democracy. It might have been a terrific place to vacation, on that I'm not sure, but it certainly wasn't a democracy any more than it is today.
 
It was a hotspot for the mafia. And with the hotels and casinos it was a cash cow also.
It was a beautiful place once upon a time. Beautiful beaches, hotels, superb restaurants and the warm hearts of the people were the gems of it all. They deserve so much more. But thanks to Obama, sending the Castro brothers a life-line while their economy crumbles will be enough to keep the regime running but not improve the lives of the people.

Ironically, I read an article where the Chamber of Commerce was delighted over Obama's latest E.O. involving Cuba. But then again they were delighted over Obama's E.O. Amnesty as well. After all making money is what's important right? It doesn't matter if it screws our citizens out of jobs or the Cuban people of democracy, it's all about the money being top priority. Right?
 
And then there's the definition of insanity - continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different outcome. We've been trying to isolate Cuba for some 55 years now, and nothing has come of it.

From what I've been hearing, I am literally on both sides of this...On the one hand I'd like to see the Cuban people have a better life, and prosper...On the other, I don't see what Obama got out of this....Correct me if I am wrong, but in a negotiation, aren't you supposed to get something for it?
 
I don't think anyone knows what the u.s got out of it people on here are just speculating. As far as we know the Castro brothers might step down from power tomorrow
 
If by "worked" you mean having created widespread starvation in Cuba, then you have a point. I'm not sure just why anyone would have wished such a thing on the people of Cuba, however.

And Communism is dead. Even China gave it up, as witness their booming capitalistic economy.

And Cuba under Batista was no democracy. It might have been a terrific place to vacation, on that I'm not sure, but it certainly wasn't a democracy any more than it is today.

Actually our government eased up on the embargo and provided humanitarian aid to Cuba, passed by a Republican controlled Congress and signed by Bill Clinton.

Funny, Cuban refugees didn't start pouring out onto our shores crossing on anything that could float for 200 miles until the Castro brothers took control. So it must have been a place the Cuban people were much happier and had more opportunities to produce a good life for themselves.

BS on the Communism. Pull your head out of the sand. Hell do a google search.
 
I don't think anyone knows what the u.s got out of it people on here are just speculating. As far as we know the Castro brothers might step down from power tomorrow

Gee - that's comforting. Nobody knows how America benefited by supposedly normalizing relations with Cuba and releasing three Cuban spies who were involved in the downing of an airplane and the killing of two American pilots. I'm sure the Castro boys were on their knees begging Obama to take the deal and stop torturing them with his strong arm tactics.
 
No there is no Soviet Union but there is still Communism and it is on the rise.

You fail to take in account of the past fifty years that the embargo on Cuba would have worked if Cuba hadn't got lucky with Hugo Chavez. We were once again at a position where Cuba was ready to collapse and Obama steps in to save the day leaving less hope for the people of that country to ever taste democracy and the human rights violations will continue.

We had a very good relationship with Cuba prior to the Castro regime. It was a hot spot for many Americans for travel. I have pictures of my grandparents vacationing there. So your point is invalid.

It is highly argumentative that Cuba trades with all they do today because of Hugo Chavez.
 
Gee - that's comforting. Nobody knows how America benefited by supposedly normalizing relations with Cuba and releasing three Cuban spies who were involved in the downing of an airplane and the killing of two American pilots. I'm sure the Castro boys were on their knees begging Obama to take the deal and stop torturing them with his strong arm tactics.
Well damn its only been a day. the Vatican had something to do with it so I'm sure there's more to the story
 
Well damn its only been a day. the Vatican had something to do with it so I'm sure there's more to the story

Yeah, Castro probably had to provide the Vatican with a dozen young Cuban boys, orphans with no messy family ties.
 
It is highly argumentative that Cuba trades with all they do today because of Hugo Chavez.
There is plenty written that Hugo Chavez stopped Cuba from totally colapsing when the Soviet Union crumbled. Take it or leave it. Believe what you want. No skin off my nose. There is plenty of information out there to validate that Chavez sent Cuba money to keep it going. Big money from oil. Hard to comprehend a democratic elected president would do such a thing when a good portion of his own country lived in slum conditions worse than third world. But he called Castro a "brother". The last of the totalitarian regimes in the Western hemisphere.
 
From what I've been hearing, I am literally on both sides of this...On the one hand I'd like to see the Cuban people have a better life, and prosper...On the other, I don't see what Obama got out of this....Correct me if I am wrong, but in a negotiation, aren't you supposed to get something for it?

I wouldn't worry to much JMac. :2wave: As BO isn't even going to get much out of his EO. ;)



How Congress Could Stymie Obama’s Cuba Plan.....

“Relations with the Castro regime should not be revisited, let alone normalized, until the Cuban people enjoy freedom – and not one second sooner,” House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio). For those hoping to halt, or at least slow, the president’s efforts, there are a handful of legislative paths that are could present themselves once lawmakers return to Washington. They fall in three general areas:

SPENDING BILLS: The most powerful tool available to Congress is its power of the purse: the ability to fund–or more importantly, defund–government programs, initiatives and other policies that lawmakers don’t like. The $1.1 trillion spending bill enacted last week, for example, contains Cuba-related provisions in its roughly 1,600 pages, including a prohibition against funds for U.S. agriculture programs from being used to directly finance or provide assistance to Cuba and a handful of other countries.

Critics of Mr. Obama’s normalization plans have already signaled they plan to use the appropriations process to try to slow the process. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) tweeted on Wednesday that “I will do all in my power to block the use of funds to open an embassy in Cuba.” That’s no idle threat; Mr. Graham is slated to become chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee’s subcommittee on state and foreign operations next year. That not only puts him in charge of a bill that included $49.3 billion in discretionary spending for fiscal 2015, but also oversight of the State Department’s budget.

How Congress Could Stymie Obama’s Cuba Plan - Washington Wire - WSJ
 
Oh, and lets not forget what Rubio stated.



Sen. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.), Cuban-American himself, said as much on Wednesday at a news conference criticizing the Obama administration’s move. “I anticipate we’re going to have a very interesting couple of years discussing how you’re going to get an ambassador nominated and how you’re going to get an embassy funded,” he said.

Like Mr. Graham, Mr. Rubio will be in a position to follow through on his promises. He’s slated to chair a key subcommittee on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee next year, giving him the ability to challenge the White House and State Department in both hearings and when the panel considers nominations.....snip~

Guess BO Peep forgot about that, huh?
 
Oh, and lets not forget what Rubio stated.



Sen. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.), Cuban-American himself, said as much on Wednesday at a news conference criticizing the Obama administration’s move. “I anticipate we’re going to have a very interesting couple of years discussing how you’re going to get an ambassador nominated and how you’re going to get an embassy funded,” he said.

Like Mr. Graham, Mr. Rubio will be in a position to follow through on his promises. He’s slated to chair a key subcommittee on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee next year, giving him the ability to challenge the White House and State Department in both hearings and when the panel considers nominations.....snip~

Guess BO Peep forgot about that, huh?
We'll see,I don't think congress is capable of doing anything productive
 
We'll see,I don't think congress is capable of doing anything productive

Well, I know BO Peep isn't for following laws, huh? So they may have to.


The White House attempts to normalize relationships with Cuba without the approval of Congress may be in direct violation of Helms-Burton that specifically states that all political prisoners must be released and free and fair elections must be held before establishing a diplomatic relationship,” she said.....snip~

I wonder if another lawsuit isn't already underway.
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Well, I thought the part about Business would have gave it away. As opposed to the few dollars more with Cuba. Quite a difference with those who are major players with a Global Market, huh? Again.....as opposed to Cuba.

Bottomline......the ones that lose, are those in Cuba who have been fighting for Democracy only to watch BO peep enable Castro's Tyranny.

I don't see it that way. We've had a policy for 50 years that by all accounts "enabled Castro's Tyranny." It's just the historical record - we cut off all ties, imposed an economic embargo and travel ban, and Fidel is in his bed somewhere, having ruled for that entire time, and will almost surely die a free man in his own bed, and in the meantime the economic sanctions have hurt ordinary Cubans while doing exactly NOTHING to wrest power from Fidel and now his brother. How could something fail worse than that?
 
From what I've been hearing, I am literally on both sides of this...On the one hand I'd like to see the Cuban people have a better life, and prosper...On the other, I don't see what Obama got out of this....Correct me if I am wrong, but in a negotiation, aren't you supposed to get something for it?

I dunno... what would he want from Cuba?

Perhaps one of those classic '50s cars or something.
 
I dunno... what would he want from Cuba?

Perhaps one of those classic '50s cars or something.
Baseball players? sugar, nickel, tobacco, shellfish, citrus, coffee[
 
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