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Thread: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Agreed. With a complicit media, and labyrinth like websites offering access to public documents, (ever try to view documents on gpo.gov, or other government sites?), the government is counting on people remaining in the dark.
    You mean like "tortured language"?

    No, never at gpo.gov, but we have a Mandarin style of civil service here, where 'access" takes on a rather distorted meaning in that, yes, you CAN, get access, but NO, not this way and not today.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    You mean like "tortured language"?

    No, never at gpo.gov, but we have a Mandarin style of civil service here, where 'access" takes on a rather distorted meaning in that, yes, you CAN, get access, but NO, not this way and not today.
    When the Affordable Care Act was passed, I attempted to read the legislation. It would take 100 lawyers a month to actually follow what was in the bill, what with the cross references, and cites to other legislation. It would not be possible for a single voting member of Congress to have read and understood was in that legislation, even if they were given a year to read it.

    Most people would be appalled by the output and actions of Congress on a daily basis while in session. Committee transcripts are available if you have hours to search for them, and days to figure out what is being discussed.

    Smoke and Mirrors perfected.

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    When the Affordable Care Act was passed, I attempted to read the legislation. It would take 100 lawyers a month to actually follow what was in the bill, what with the cross references, and cites to other legislation. It would not be possible for a single voting member of Congress to have read and understood was in that legislation, even if they were given a year to read it.

    Most people would be appalled by the output and actions of Congress on a daily basis while in session. Committee transcripts are available if you have hours to search for them, and days to figure out what is being discussed.

    Smoke and Mirrors perfected.

    Hmmm...

    We have the daily Question Period where the government faces an hour of 'common oath' questioning by MP's. Hansard, the transcripts of all parliament and committee are published in print and on line on a daily basis. An act like the ACA would not get past the legal committee and would not meet the standard of law of 1,o00 years of the British Parliamentary System.

    Increasingly, your "leaders" have been pushing the envelope of what is "law"; Obama, instead of the "brightest and the best" brought in the "sleaziest and least" to get the lie done.

    My real hope is that this will be another "Watergate" and that change will come, that the smoke and mirrors becomes more real government. It won't happen, though, as long as one third the population is anti the other third and the third third gave up caring decades ago.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Hmmm...

    We have the daily Question Period where the government faces an hour of 'common oath' questioning by MP's. Hansard, the transcripts of all parliament and committee are published in print and on line on a daily basis. An act like the ACA would not get past the legal committee and would not meet the standard of law of 1,o00 years of the British Parliamentary System.

    Increasingly, your "leaders" have been pushing the envelope of what is "law"; Obama, instead of the "brightest and the best" brought in the "sleaziest and least" to get the lie done.

    My real hope is that this will be another "Watergate" and that change will come, that the smoke and mirrors becomes more real government. It won't happen, though, as long as one third the population is anti the other third and the third third gave up caring decades ago.
    It seems to me history illustrates the collective conscious of the citizens here works in cycles. Consider Prohibition. Imagine the collective thought required to ban alcohol, and the shift required to undo that folly.

    Today, we have a similar run of Progressive thought winding it's way through the collective process. Like prohibition, such agenda's and action will inevitably give way to reasoned approaches to society and government, and such thoughts and ideas will fall away, ready for reload the next time emotional handwringing gets any traction.

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    It seems to me history illustrates the collective conscious of the citizens here works in cycles. Consider Prohibition. Imagine the collective thought required to ban alcohol, and the shift required to undo that folly.

    Today, we have a similar run of Progressive thought winding it's way through the collective process. Like prohibition, such agenda's and action will inevitably give way to reasoned approaches to society and government, and such thoughts and ideas will fall away, ready for reload the next time emotional handwringing gets any traction.


    Excellent comparison!

    As both have an aberrant quality; prohibition was old time religion gone awry just as American "progressive" is an aberrant. The latter is a collection of old idea re-packaged as modern solutions, when they have been proven failures across the world. This country, once deemed the the hell hole of socialism by conservatives and "liberals" alike is more the true, modern "progressive", a hybrid of the best of socialism run by conservative ideals within a business friendly environment. The ACA is anything but business OR user friendly and yet this already discredited and rusted hulk stands as the epitome of the American "progressive" movement.

    The best run and most prosperous governments today are a blend of some socialist ideals and business. In Japan, companies have little to no taxes but are their own nanny state. Germany's "right" is our middle and both have been thriving though hard times.

    What you are being sold is a lie. Self serving politicians and an ignorant media, more capable of covering the exposure of some Hollywood bimbo's privates than political science are spewing goo that no longer even applies in the new, globalized world. Even the terms "right and left" have become vague; Germany's 'Conservatives' are more "left" than our socialists especially on the ecology. Canada's Conservatives tout the BENEFITS of universal health care to business, rather successfully in fact. The so-called "socialist" Chinese have no health care at all, no unemployment, and still have forced labor, and then there's the French whose conservatives created the 30 hour work week and 12 weeks vacation

    What is winding through your system is a disease of ego and greed and corruption posing as ideology.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    AGAIN opinions, if they are to be respected and considered valid, need to be rooted in fact and logic. If not they should and will be treated as the utter nonsense they are.
    Or you could treat other peoples opinions with civility.

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    You are implying that Obama's actions are limited to the mundane, but seriously, do you really know what all of them are? Considering he has deliberately misled the American people on this very issue, as well as just about everything else he has done, are you really hat secure with all of his actions, that NONE of them benefit his cronies, fellow community organizers or even a voting bloc or two?

    Or, in the Obama world is that simply business as usual?

    You see, my problem is this. He says he has issuedless EO's than other presidents, but in truth his memo's and crap are the exact same thing and in fact he has issued more than any other president since FDR in the war.

    Also, he has fed all the "stupid voters" he idea he is taking this heroic stand for illegals and ****, when in fact he is merely creating an elite and kicking the can down the road while encouraging more aliens streaming into the country. And you haven't even read it have you?


    Is this the "progressive" standard in the USA? Is this what you excuse?

    Sorry, but this isn't government of the people for the people, it is government of the masses for Obama.

    And I do believe you are the first in this thread to use the word "impeach" and in ALL CAPS with an "!" all shouty and ****, so we know progressives are also prone to massive exaggeration and over reaction.
    ONE MORE TIME...

    You cannot conflate Executive Memoranda with Executive Orders. I am not only implying that the memoranda deal with administrative functions I am stating. It obvious that you have done nothing to research this issue yourself and you are just repeating sound bites and talking points of others.

    The reason you cannot conflate Memoranda with Executive Orders is that many of the Memoranda are setting up administrative directives relating to Executive Orders. If you conflate the two you will get an erroneous number because they would in effect be duplicates. If you had bothered to even casually research the issue yourself you would know this and not look so foolish.

    The President and the Administration did not "mislead" anyone about the Executive Orders. You cannot conflate Executive Orders and Executive Memoranda. They are two distinct things used for distinct purposes. Please do a little research on your own before spouting misleading talking points.

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Or you could treat other peoples opinions with civility.
    I do treat other peoples opinions with civility if those opinions are valid and based on something more than wishful thinking. I will not treat opinions that have been exposed as false, misleading or otherwise unreasonable opinions with respect because they do not deserve respect. If you treat every cockamammie opinion as valid then people with cockamammie notions are vindicated as if their notions are equivalent of valid fact based, logical opinions and they are not equivalent. They need to be exposed as the bull**** they are.

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    I do treat other peoples opinions with civility if those opinions are valid and based on something more than wishful thinking. I will not treat opinions that have been exposed as false, misleading or otherwise unreasonable opinions with respect because they do not deserve respect. If you treat every cockamammie opinion as valid then people with cockamammie notions are vindicated as if their notions are equivalent of valid fact based, logical opinions and they are not equivalent. They need to be exposed as the bull**** they are.
    Or you could just treat other people civilly.

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    Re: Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Or you could just treat other people civilly.
    Again I go out of my way to treat people with civility. When they continually spout thoroughly debunked "opinions" I will treat those opinions with requisite contempt.

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