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Thread: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    ...


    I didn't see this posted yet in the MSM or Non-MSM area, so I figured I'd throw it up. I'm not sure it changes anything, other than that prosecutor clearly didn't do a good job vetting his "witness" (though I'm not sure why the prosecutor would call a witness that defends the defendant - is that normal?).
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Do you think there was a trial? Is that why you fault the prosecutor for not vetting his witness? If so, you really don't understand what happened.

    There was no trial. There was a Grand Jury. The prosecutor presented all the evidence relevant to the case so the Grand Jury could decide if there was anything that SHOULD go to trial. The prosecutor wasn't trying to defend Wilson because Wilson wasn't a defendant.

    Now...in regard to that article you posted, I have a profound dislike of...and I tend to distrust...articles that say one thing in the headline and another, contradictory, thing in the body of the article. It makes me want to ignore everything I'm reading in the article.

    Here is the headline with my highlights:

    Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says
    Here are the weasel words in the article:

    Since the identities of the grand jurors in the Darren Wilson case are secret, it is difficult to calculate the degree to which McElroy's testimony affected the outcome or how seriously prosecutors considered it.
    So, my question is...was she a "key witness"...or not?

    Also, it wasn't up to the prosecutor to consider her testimony. That was up to the Grand Jury members. It sounds like the prosecutor presented her testimony...as he should have done. I'm guessing the Grand Jury members considered ALL the evidence that was presented to them before they made their decision.

    In any case, whysoserious...there is one thing you got right in your post: This doesn't change anything.
    Last edited by Mycroft; 12-17-14 at 12:51 AM.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    ...


    I didn't see this posted yet in the MSM or Non-MSM area, so I figured I'd throw it up. I'm not sure it changes anything, other than that prosecutor clearly didn't do a good job vetting his "witness" (though I'm not sure why the prosecutor would call a witness that defends the defendant - is that normal?).
    [/FONT][/COLOR]

    Again....this is why you need an actual trial...for CROSS EXAMINATION of witnesses.

    That this never got to an actual trial is a travesty, regardless on what you think went down.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    ...


    I didn't see this posted yet in the MSM or Non-MSM area, so I figured I'd throw it up. I'm not sure it changes anything, other than that prosecutor clearly didn't do a good job vetting his "witness" (though I'm not sure why the prosecutor would call a witness that defends the defendant - is that normal?).
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    It would not be normal in a trial. Truth be told not in a grand jury either, based on my reading of the evidence I do not believe there was ever a case to be made against Darren Wilson in a criminal sense, frankly the grand jury was a Showboat meant to make it look like the government was doing something, the prosecutor knew there was no case and did not want to bring it to trial meeting he was between a rock and a hard place.

    Really the grand jury is an archaic system. Back before there was a system of government prosecutors, A party who was aggrieved in a criminal sense could file charges himself against the offending party, The grand jury was to make sure that the guy filing the charges wasn't full of it. In an era of professional prosecutors and judges the grand jury should really be on its way out. My state does not even use grand jury's at all except to investigate corruption by public officials in rare instances. In this case the grand jury was merely a political tool to calm down the initial wave of civil disorder after the slaying of Michael Brown
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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Again....this is why you need an actual trial...for CROSS EXAMINATION of witnesses.

    That this never got to an actual trial is a travesty, regardless on what you think went down.
    The defense would've destroyed the prosecutions witnesses in such a case. There was zero case against Wilson, in fact really if Wilson got to trial he would win, and then sue the DA for malicious prosecution. If a judge didn't throw out the charges long before. There were a multitude of witnesses who supported Wilson's side, the witnesses on browns side either tell a story contradicted by physical evidence or in one case, was a criminal co-conspirator of Brown's
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    ...


    I didn't see this posted yet in the MSM or Non-MSM area, so I figured I'd throw it up. I'm not sure it changes anything, other than that prosecutor clearly didn't do a good job vetting his "witness" (though I'm not sure why the prosecutor would call a witness that defends the defendant - is that normal?).
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Is there a case?

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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    here is the prosecutor's rationale for knowingly putting in the grand jury witness stand a witness he knew was lying about the events she testified about:
    St. Louis prosecutor McCulloch says he knew ‘Witness 40′ lied to Ferguson grand jury
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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here is the prosecutor's rationale for knowingly putting in the grand jury witness stand a witness he knew was lying about the events she testified about:
    St. Louis prosecutor McCulloch says he knew ‘Witness 40′ lied to Ferguson grand jury
    I wonder if they will be charged with perjury?
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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Do you think there was a trial? Is that why you fault the prosecutor for not vetting his witness? If so, you really don't understand what happened.

    There was no trial. There was a Grand Jury. The prosecutor presented all the evidence relevant to the case so the Grand Jury could decide if there was anything that SHOULD go to trial. The prosecutor wasn't trying to defend Wilson because Wilson wasn't a defendant.

    Now...in regard to that article you posted, I have a profound dislike of...and I tend to distrust...articles that say one thing in the headline and another, contradictory, thing in the body of the article. It makes me want to ignore everything I'm reading in the article.

    Here is the headline with my highlights:



    Here are the weasel words in the article:



    So, my question is...was she a "key witness"...or not?

    Also, it wasn't up to the prosecutor to consider her testimony. That was up to the Grand Jury members. It sounds like the prosecutor presented her testimony...as he should have done. I'm guessing the Grand Jury members considered ALL the evidence that was presented to them before they made their decision.

    In any case, whysoserious...there is one thing you got right in your post: This doesn't change anything.
    I have no doubt that "key witnesses" which led to the hands in the air and shot in the back while fleeing mantra were known to be lying as well yet those folks being allowed to testify was not mentioned in the (unbiased?) OP article. Many wanted a Zimmerman/Martin re-run trial where the prosecutor bowed to public pressure (on one side only) and indicted a man that would surely not be convicted skipping the GJ phase entirely.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    I wonder if they will be charged with perjury?
    Not if they are black.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Again....this is why you need an actual trial...for CROSS EXAMINATION of witnesses.

    That this never got to an actual trial is a travesty, regardless on what you think went down.
    I don't think so. This is why you need a Grand Jury. GJ's examine the evidence and make recommendations as to whether the evidence is sufficient to bother with a trial.

    GJ's are the middel level. In Zimmerman, the first level, the prosecutor, looked at the evidence and decided no. Then a year and millions dollars later a jury trial agreed. In Wilson, the prosecutor decided to move to the second level, not because he necessarily thought he had a case, but rather to avoid another Zimmerman.

    The system worked. That you didn't like the outcome is the problem.

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