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Thread: Coburn Blocks Bill on Veterans' Suicide Prevention

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    Re: Coburn Blocks Bill on Veterans' Suicide Prevention

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, what do you suggest be done to improve efficiency between both Departments and provide needed services to post-war veterans with mental health disorders who can't received adequate care at the VA in a timely manner?

    What's your solution to these problems other than defending the politician who advocates for limited government or criticizing the poster who views his stance as obstructionist?
    Um, if you saw my post as "defending the politician who advocates for limited government or criticizing the poster who views his stance as obstructionist", that's on you. Not interested in your silly posts, sorry.

    I don't have any suggestion to improve efficiencies. You'll have to ask the people who are in charge. I don't work in Washington. Sorry. I can't give you advice.
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    Re: Coburn Blocks Bill on Veterans' Suicide Prevention

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I thought Republicans were all in favour of supporting "our veterans". They certainly were quite vocal in their attacks on the failures of Obama's Veterans Affairs department. Why did Coburn do this - ego?



    The Republican-controlled House passed the bill but the rather complex and esoteric rules of the Senate allow a single Senator to derail a popular measure.
    The outrage, in this case, seems more to be based more on the party using that rule than on the rule itself. The point being made is that VA mental health care is not a new thing. I am tired of the idea that if a current gov't program does not accomplish its stated goal then it must be continued and we must add yet another gov't program (or two or three) to accomplish that same goal.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #43
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    Re: Coburn Blocks Bill on Veterans' Suicide Prevention

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Um, if you saw my post as "defending the politician who advocates for limited government or criticizing the poster who views his stance as obstructionist", that's on you. Not interested in your silly posts, sorry.
    And yet you commented anyway...

    I don't have any suggestion to improve efficiency. You'll have to ask the people who are in charge. I don't work in Washington. Sorry. I can't give you advice.
    And so we're left with criticism without offering solutions to resolve the problem while hiding behind "that's why we elect politicians to do these kinds of things".

    Look, I'm in no way saying you nor anyone else can't have an opinion on such matters. I'm not even saying you can't agree with any one or group of politicians on an issue. But what I AM saying is do more than criticize.

    I agree that if all this bill does is allow the VA to build websites that act as information resources for veterans with mental health disorders, then it's really not doing much of anything to help them get the medical help they need. But the bill goes further than that. It ensures that the VA will update mental health information and medical resources specific to helping meet the mental health needs of (combat) veterans. It would connect (combat) veterans suffering from mental trauma to private mental health providers which is important considering that the VA has a significant shortage of mental health doctors AND we all know there is a significant delay in getting veterans to such practitioners. Additionally, I don't see a problem with the VA conducting more outreach initiatives to reach veterans in this regard considering that it's common knowledge that in many instances people who suffer from medical conditions such as clinical depression or suicide don't always reach out for help.

    So, again, if there are already such initiatives out there being offered by the VA and/or DOD such needs to be made public knowledge. If not, I see this bill as a positive, not a negative. Furthermore, if the only "bigger government" here is "more federal spending", then that doesn't seem like a valid reason to me to do nothing.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Coburn Blocks Bill on Veterans' Suicide Prevention

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    And yet you commented anyway...



    And so we're left with criticism without offering solutions to resolve the problem while hiding behind "that's why we elect politicians to do these kinds of things".

    Look, I'm in no way saying you nor anyone else can't have an opinion on such matters. I'm not even saying you can't agree with any one or group of politicians on an issue. But what I AM saying is do more than criticize.

    I agree that if all this bill does is allow the VA to build websites that act as information resources for veterans with mental health disorders, then it's really not doing much of anything to help them get the medical help they need. But the bill does further than that. It ensures that the VA will update mental health information and medical resources specific to helping meet the mental health needs of (combat) veterans. It would connect (combat) veterans suffering from mental trauma to private mental health providers which is important considering that the VA has a significant shortage of mental health doctors AND we all know there is a significant delay in getting veterans to such practitioners. Additionally, I don't see a problem with the VA conducting more outreach initiatives to reach veterans in this regard considering that it's common knowledge that in many instances people who suffer from medical conditions such as clinical depression or suicide don't always reach out for help.

    So, again, if there are already such initiatives out there being offered by the VA and/or DOD such needs to be made public knowledge. If not, I see this bill as a positive, not a negative. Furthermore, if the only "bigger government" here is "more federal spending", then that doesn't seem like a valid reason to me to do nothing.
    Once again, if you read my post's purpose as "defending a politician", you didn't read it.

    And no, I most certainly can criticize - and in fact, that's just what I did.

    My post was clear. If they have issues running the VA, they don't need a law to fix it. Issues get fixed in the real word all the time without laws being passed to make a business fox problems. Coburn is and always has been focused on spending, and that's why I mentioned the GAO.

    If you think the bill is necessary, please call your Congressperson.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Coburn Blocks Bill on Veterans' Suicide Prevention

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Once again, if you read my post's purpose as "defending a politician", you didn't read it.

    And no, I most certainly can criticize - and in fact, that's just what I did.

    My post was clear. If they have issues running the VA, they don't need a law to fix it. Issues get fixed in the real word all the time without laws being passed to make a business fox problems. Coburn is and always has been focused on spending, and that's why I mentioned the GAO.

    If you think the bill is necessary, please call your Congressperson.
    I might just do that, but first...

    I've read your post at least three times now, even quoted it herein and replied accordingly. But for the record (and since you insist that I haven't read it), let's look at it again, shall we:

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Do we believe that the people in Washington don't have any idea what the VA and Pentagon don't currently do?
    I'm sure folks in Washington, DC are very much aware what the VA and the Pentagon (DOD) does. Problem here is these departments/agencies aren't very good at talking to one another. To put it mildly, DOD gets them (combat soldiers) chewed up and spits them out. The VA is left to put "Humpty Dumpty" back together again. They was fine when each branch of the military provided medical care for the servicemen who enlisted or was conscripted under them, but that's not the case anymore and hasn't been for a very long time. Now, all retirees and/or medically discharged veterans go to the VA for their medical care. And in case you hadn't noticed, there are a LOT of sick and wounded veterans out there!

    This bill would force DOD and the VA to "TALK" more about their programs on suicide prevention and may very well lead to streamlining the process of managed care in this area. But you're correct in that you really don't need a law to make them do that. Internal policy, i.e., Memorandum of Understanding, could take care of this problem.

    And what he did was because he wanted to reduce the size of government.
    Unless the bill forms a new government agency, I don't see anything in it that would increase the size or scope of government. In fact, neither of the pilot programs suggested in this bill would form new agencies outside of the VA or any of its sub-divisions that currently exist. Also, Section 8 of the bill prohibits any new appropriations for these pilot programs. Therefore, the VA would have to carry out these initiatives from funds that are already allocated.

    He's been identifying and fighting against redundancies in government for years. It's because of him the GAO now has to report annually and everyone sees where the redundancies are.
    So, where are the redundancies between the VA and DOD that this bill would duplicate? Name them.

    He also objected to the cost of the bill not being offset elsewhere.
    Again, if the overlaying reason Sen. Colburn objects to the bill is the price tag (which Section 8 of the bill prohibits), he's being more of an obstructionist than an advocate for limited government. Of course, the offset could easily be "cut spending within either the VA or DOD," since both agencies always have cost overruns, but which politician would be willing to do so especially from within the GOP when they've fought hard to establish an ideological identity as being big on supporting our troops?

    If the Pentagon and the VA aren't working efficiently today, perhaps there is a better way to fix them without tossing millions of dollars at them?
    Other than an intra-department MOU as suggest above, what other solutions would you suggest? Again, I'm a far cry from picking on you. However, I am advocating for solutions, not just criticism.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 12-19-14 at 01:19 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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