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Thread: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

  1. #61
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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    This is a truly awful situation. Please don't use this tragedy to promote an anti-war agenda. It's inappropriate and disrespectful.
    No its reality. You don't think those that are in combat situations have a higher likelihood to snap?

    If you cant examine actions at home and relate them to what where doing elsewhere, and the implications of sending Americans over to do them, your really just not seeing the bigger picture.

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Yea its a still hard to go into a warzone and not see combat or the ramifications of it, and most do see combat. He was deployed as a marine from 2002 to 2011 in Iraq, I would be shocked if he did not...
    The fact that it would shock you shows quite well that you really don't know what you are talking about. . The majority of people who deploy do not see any combat what so ever. There are a ton of Marines as well as Soldiers who never leave the super FOB they live on.

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    The fact that it would shock you shows quite well that you really don't know what you are talking about. . The majority of people who deploy do not see any combat what so ever. There are a ton of Marines as well as Soldiers who never leave the super FOB they live on.
    That does not mean they do not see the aftermath, which can be scarring as well...

    I know ten people that have deployed. They all have scene combat except one, who is mechanics core. One of them is currently in Jordan working as a edged weapons specialist, and periodically deploys to Iraq to raid IS held areas...

    So based on my personal experience, it really depends on what you go into. If their is fighting, and you genuinely want to see combat, you probably will...

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    No its reality. You don't think those that are in combat situations have a higher likelihood to snap?

    If you cant examine actions at home and relate them to what where doing elsewhere, and the implications of sending Americans over to do them, your really just not seeing the bigger picture.
    He was home from Iraq for almost 4 years. He was locked in a bitter custody battle with his ex-wife. They were in court as recently as last week. She was telling people for years that she was afraid of him. There is zero evidence that he "snapped" because of his time in Iraq.

    Thousands of people served in wars on behalf of this country and didn't kill the families of their former spouse.
    Thousands of men and women have killed their families after never having seen a second of military service.

    You're making this an anti-war statement with no data to back it up, and you are using his ex-wife's dead family members to promote an agenda here.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    He was home from Iraq for almost 4 years. He was locked in a bitter custody battle with his ex-wife. They were in court as recently as last week. She was telling people for years that she was afraid of him. There is zero evidence that he "snapped" because of his time in Iraq.

    Thousands of people served in wars on behalf of this country and didn't kill the families of their former spouse.
    Thousands of men and women have killed their families after never having seen a second of military service.

    You're making this an anti-war statement with no data to back it up, and you are using his ex-wife's dead family members to promote an agenda here.
    Actually he claimed to have suffered from PTSD, and his fellow marines said he had "been off" for a while now... But ya know just make assumptions...

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Actually he claimed to have suffered from PTSD, and his fellow marines said he had "been off" for a while now... But ya know just make assumptions...
    In April 2008, the Artillery Meteorological Man — someone who assists with military fire accuracy — began a tour in Ramadi, Iraq and returned home just two months later after health issues cropped up with his wife, Nicole Hill Stone, the men said.

    While they were home, Stone would regularly discuss the tumultuous relationship with his wife, Perone said.

    “He would openly talk about it. He always talking about how she was crazy and they were going through divorce at that time,” the Marine said. “He was so defeated at that time. He was broke. A lot of his money is going toward that.”

    Perone said years went by without him seeing Stone until 2011 when the 35-year-old re-enlisted. Stone wasn’t the same man though, according to Perone. He would talk about having troubles with post-traumatic stress disorder and the medication prescribed by doctors with the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs for it, he said.

    “The lasting image in my head is when he came back and talked about the VA doctors and prescriptions. You know someone long enough, you can tell that there was a difference,” Perone said. “He had a new girlfriend, but obviously he was still very stressed with the situation with his ex-wife.”



    Shooting Spree Suspect Had Odd Reputation, Known Issues With Ex-Wife: Fellow Marines | NBC 10 Philadelphia

    But please continue to use his dead ex-wife and her dead family members for political purposes.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    In April 2008, the Artillery Meteorological Man — someone who assists with military fire accuracy — began a tour in Ramadi, Iraq and returned home just two months later after health issues cropped up with his wife, Nicole Hill Stone, the men said.

    While they were home, Stone would regularly discuss the tumultuous relationship with his wife, Perone said.

    “He would openly talk about it. He always talking about how she was crazy and they were going through divorce at that time,” the Marine said. “He was so defeated at that time. He was broke. A lot of his money is going toward that.”

    Perone said years went by without him seeing Stone until 2011 when the 35-year-old re-enlisted. Stone wasn’t the same man though, according to Perone. He would talk about having troubles with post-traumatic stress disorder and the medication prescribed by doctors with the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs for it, he said.

    “The lasting image in my head is when he came back and talked about the VA doctors and prescriptions. You know someone long enough, you can tell that there was a difference,” Perone said. “He had a new girlfriend, but obviously he was still very stressed with the situation with his ex-wife.”



    Shooting Spree Suspect Had Odd Reputation, Known Issues With Ex-Wife: Fellow Marines | NBC 10 Philadelphia

    But please continue to use his dead ex-wife and her dead family members for political purposes.
    He claimed to suffer from PTSD. That same article says so, and maybe unstable people have a tendency to join the military. My friend in Jordan was almost a heroin addict before he joined (he was addicted to oxycottin) furthermore pointing out the flaws in wars of aggression is not "using" a tragic situation, its pointing out the common sense implications of it.

    But please continue building a straw man...

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post

    Democrats have expanded wars (technically military conflicts) greatly in some cases, like Vietnam, but a republican still started that war (Eisenhower)

    the term 'neocon' has evolved to simply be a shorthand version of "war supporting conservative" that's how I was using it.

    Honestly IMO both conservatism and liberalism have been dead in America for at least 50 years, possibly longer. We are stuck with corporatists on both sides...
    You are historically wrong, the Vietnam War wasn't started in Vietnam by Esienhower. President Esienhower's strategy when he was POTUS was to stop Communist expansion in South East Asia in Laos, not in South Vietnam. As a general a five star general who won the war in Europe during WW ll he knew something about war, strategy and tactics. The key to stopping communist expansion was preventing North Vietnam access to what would become known as the "Ho Chi Minh Trail" which begins in Laos.

    Also Gen./President Esienhower watched the mistakes that France made during the first Indochina War and knew that you couldn't make a stand at the 17th parallel.

    When JFK became President, outgoing Esienhower warned JFK if your going to make a stand against communist expansion in South East Asia it has to be in Laos not in South Vietnam. He also told JFK not to get involved with the Diem regime that it was to corrupt.

    JFK refused to listen to his elders who were more experienced and knowledgeable and instead listed to those inexperienced Harvard buddies of his known at the time "The Young and Brightest."

    JFK ignored Esienhower and most of his military advisers and with the help of the CIA decided on regime change in the RVN. In 1963 JFK signed off on the CIA backed military coup that backed fire when the Diem brothers were murdered. From that day on, Vietnam became America's problem, we owned South Vietnam. A few weeks later JFK would meet the same fate as Diem.

    Note: The word "neocon" was coined by the "New Left" to label liberals who were anti communist.
    Conservatives have a long track record of isolationist. "Peace Through Strength." A large well trained military, no body will want to **** with you.

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Manhunt for 'Armed and Dangerous' Suspect in Pennsylvania Shooting Spree - ABC News

    Early this morning a ex military man who served in Iraq killed six people including his ex wife and a 14 year old girl. He is still at large.

    To me this is yet another reason to stop the wars. Allot of the people that come back suffer from PTSD, and that can make them unstable.
    He was probably ****ed up, before he went to war. Murders like this aren't typically a sign of PTSD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    You are historically wrong, the Vietnam War wasn't started in Vietnam by Esienhower. President Esienhower's strategy when he was POTUS was to stop Communist expansion in South East Asia in Laos, not in South Vietnam. As a general a five star general who won the war in Europe during WW ll he knew something about war, strategy and tactics. The key to stopping communist expansion was preventing North Vietnam access to what would become known as the "Ho Chi Minh Trail" which begins in Laos.

    Also Gen./President Esienhower watched the mistakes that France made during the first Indochina War and knew that you couldn't make a stand at the 17th parallel.

    When JFK became President, outgoing Esienhower warned JFK if your going to make a stand against communist expansion in South East Asia it has to be in Laos not in South Vietnam. He also told JFK not to get involved with the Diem regime that it was to corrupt.

    JFK refused to listen to his elders who were more experienced and knowledgeable and instead listed to those inexperienced Harvard buddies of his known at the time "The Young and Brightest."

    JFK ignored Esienhower and most of his military advisers and with the help of the CIA decided on regime change in the RVN. In 1963 JFK signed off on the CIA backed military coup that backed fire when the Diem brothers were murdered. From that day on, Vietnam became America's problem, we owned South Vietnam. A few weeks later JFK would meet the same fate as Diem.

    Note: The word "neocon" was coined by the "New Left" to label liberals who were anti communist.
    Conservatives have a long track record of isolationist. "Peace Through Strength." A large well trained military, no body will want to **** with you.
    No Vietnam started in 1955. Eisenhower was in office. That's simply a fact. JFK did expand troops in nam greatly, but we already had troops their, sent by Eisenhower. Furthermore he started the sick "domino theory" that resulted in all those wars and us overthrowing multiple governments in south America among other places because we where scared of communism spreading.

    Eisenhower gave diem financial support throughout his presidency, so your basically saying Eisenhower was a huge hypocrite...

    Jfk did the same as Eisenhower by expanding the war Eisenhower started and backing diem as Eisenhower did. Furthermore he new nothing of the assassination (that was the CIA and military industrial complex's doing)

    Kennedy had planned to exile diem, he was quoted as saying the assassination was "particularly abhorrent" and when people tried to console him by telling him they where despots he said "No. They were in a difficult position. They did the best they could for their country." So again your just wrong their...

    Allot of the reason for the jfk assassination was probably the diem brothers death and his reaction. He started realizing that the military industrial complex was a real threat (like Eisenhower warned the nation) and started attempting to stem the tide in Washington. I have always thought that's what got him killed.

    No it was coined to label liberals who where anti Stalinist, not communist. Their is a huge difference between the two, and a communist government is a oxymoron (you literally can't have one, by definition if you achieve communism their is no more government)

    However the word has evolved (specifically the abbreviation neocon) to mean war supporting conservative.

    Conservatives have claimed for a long time that they don't support wars abroad, but the facts of the last 60 years or so do not back up this claim. Again conservatives started every war except for those under Clinton and Truman.

    Heck Reagan (a icon for most cons today) invaded Grenada and was quoted as saying "Defense is not a budget item. You spend what you need."
    Which he most certainly did. Not very conservative if you ask me, but hey no one else republicans have elected really was either...

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