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Thread: Sydney siege: Hostages held in Lindt cafe[W:49]

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I do agree with you that more influential Muslim clerics worldwide need to take more forceful stands against such acts.
    The problem is that many of the more influential Muslim clerics worldwide are the ones calling for extremism! They're the ones declaring fatwas left and right, calling for people to be put to death for drawing cartoons they don't like or writing books they don't like or doing things to their stupid book. Those people are the problem! What needs to happen, and this simply doesn't, is that these extremists need to be officially de-frocked or de-turbaned or whatever so that they are no longer seen as officially recognized Muslim clerics. They need to be bounced out on their ass. It won't stop them from finding followers but it will show that Islam doesn't want them around.

    Unfortunately, in the largest Muslim populations in the world, Islam *DOES* want them around!
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Oh, give it a feckin' break. If I punched you in the mouth because I despise your pinko politics, it wouldn't be "terrorism". It would just be me engaging in assault and battery; a crime, but not feckin' terrorism. You lefties need to get a grip on reality. Every incident that involves violence and politics isn't "Terrorism" no matter how much it suits your agenda to try to render the word meaningless.
    And the right wing alternative universe syndrome continues. The attack against Gifford was and always will be terrorism, just as the attack in Oklahoma or Austin was a terrorist attack or the gun rampage in Texas last month by a Christian right wing terrorist. When an attack is politically motivated then it is terror .. or dont the same rules apply just because the attackers are right wing and not muslim? Are you admitting to being a hypocrite?
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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    You need to pay more attention then. I'll just repost from another thread on this topic.

    There was a joint prayer session that included an Imam, a Rabbi and a priest at Lakemba Mosque last night too. I imagine the radicals weren't thrilled about that show of unity either.

    Ah well, too bad.


    Sydney siege: Grand Mufti of Australia condemns Martin Place attack

    Muslim community 'shocked' by Sydney cafe siege, say 'misguided' individuals misrepresenting faith - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/25...ey-cafe-siege/

    Australian Muslims condemn 'madman' gunman as #illridewithyou trends | SBS News

    I appreciate it but we won't see a change unless politicians,leaders and crowds speak out.

    People tend to misunderstand when I criticize Muslims,I'm not saying Muslims are horrible creatures cheering for the massacre of innocents.But let's be honest,a hashtag or a prayer session won't make a change.Islam needs a reform,it'll convince me when I see Muslims in action.
    Last edited by youngturk; 12-17-14 at 10:48 AM.

  4. #114
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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And the right wing alternative universe syndrome continues. The attack against Gifford was and always will be terrorism, just as the attack in Oklahoma or Austin was a terrorist attack or the gun rampage in Texas last month by a Christian right wing terrorist. When an attack is politically motivated then it is terror .. or dont the same rules apply just because the attackers are right wing and not muslim? Are you admitting to being a hypocrite?
    You really don't comprehend the meaning of terrorism. You're smart enough but I guess it just suits your political agenda to expand "terrorism" as much as possible.

    If the purpose of COORDINATED violence against RANDOM CIVILIANS isn't to intimidate a POPULACE for political or religious goals, it's not terrorism. It's just people acting badly. Some Right wing Christian nutcase going on a killing spree isn't terrorism. The Gifford assassination attempt wasn't terrorism. He wasn't trying to terrorize the population into submission. He just wanted to kill Gifford.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  5. #115
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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    You really don't comprehend the meaning of terrorism. You're smart enough but I guess it just suits your political agenda to expand "terrorism" as much as possible.
    Oh I fully understand the meaning of terrorism... to terrorize civilians populations.

    If the purpose of COORDINATED violence against RANDOM CIVILIANS isn't to intimidate a POPULACE for political or religious goals, it's not terrorism.
    So you are basically saying that the shootings of Jews in Europe was not terror, that this Australian attack was not terror and that we in fact have not had much terror for the last 40 years, because much of that is in fact.. not coordinated.

    It's just people acting badly.
    People acting badly......

    Some Right wing Christian nutcase going on a killing spree isn't terrorism.
    And yet there is a specific political motive and there is certainly being committed terror against random civilians.. but because it is not coordinated then it is not terror?

    The Gifford assassination attempt wasn't terrorism. He wasn't trying to terrorize the population into submission.
    Oh yea, he was just trying to terrorize the part of the population that had "left wing" views eh? As long as it is not the whole population then it is not terror?

    He just wanted to kill Gifford.
    Why did he want to kill Gifford?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The problem is that many of the more influential Muslim clerics worldwide are the ones calling for extremism! They're the ones declaring fatwas left and right, calling for people to be put to death for drawing cartoons they don't like or writing books they don't like or doing things to their stupid book. Those people are the problem! What needs to happen, and this simply doesn't, is that these extremists need to be officially de-frocked or de-turbaned or whatever so that they are no longer seen as officially recognized Muslim clerics. They need to be bounced out on their ass. It won't stop them from finding followers but it will show that Islam doesn't want them around.

    Unfortunately, in the largest Muslim populations in the world, Islam *DOES* want them around!
    Exactly. Saying the Imams should stop talking about violence against non-Muslims would be like telling western leaders to stop talking about equality and human rights. Islamic leaders are wired a certain way and strongly believe in what they are saying, just as those who support education for girls, protection for women and Gays, etc, believe in what they're saying.

    They preach to the vulnerable and the less sophisticated, and have enjoyed some success, keeping in mind that they needn't be successful too often to create terror in the democratic communities. And yes, Muslims are not turning in those Imams who are preaching hate. Most have an us against them attitude even if they don't necessarily support terrorism. We an see it often enough on these boards in fact.

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    Re: Sydney siege: Hostages held in Lindt cafe[W:49]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Its not about more Guns, its simply about the Right to defend ourselves.

    In Americas case that right is inalienable, God given.

    Its willful ignorance to think for one second that more Gun laws lead to a safer society.

    Especially in America where we don't control our Southern Border.
    Now its god that annoints you with a gun. Talk about propaganda-ish talking points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Sydney siege: Hostages held in Lindt cafe[W:49]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You think the lack of school house shootings is a direct result of banning guns?
    You think more guns means less shootings?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Sydney siege: Hostages held in Lindt cafe[W:49]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    You think more guns means less shootings?
    Fewet guns didn't prevent this. Did it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And the right wing alternative universe syndrome continues. The attack against Gifford was and always will be terrorism, just as the attack in Oklahoma or Austin was a terrorist attack or the gun rampage in Texas last month by a Christian right wing terrorist. When an attack is politically motivated then it is terror .. or dont the same rules apply just because the attackers are right wing and not muslim? Are you admitting to being a hypocrite?
    The Gifford shooting wasn't politically motivated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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