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Thread: Sydney siege: Hostages held in Lindt cafe[W:49]

  1. #101
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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, they always condemn the attacks after they're completed. That's become part of their MO. But the problem is what to do before these attacks occur.
    Which they ALSO do.. just because you dont see it, does not mean it aint there..
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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually they do it before the fact also.. quite often but they dont exactly announce such things. Just because you dont read it on highly anti-Muslim western media, does not mean it does not happen.
    I read a lot of pro Islam media and don't see it much there either, unless they're murdered for trying to leave Islam. Do you have a link?


    Half of their priests would be in jail and most of their flock would be on religious trial for moral corruption. ..
    Do you have any evidence to support this claim? In fact you should be giving links to every assertion you make. Your 'Muslims good, Jews and Catholics bad' meme wore out long ago.

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually they do it before the fact also.. quite often but they dont exactly announce such things. Just because you dont read it on highly anti-Muslim western media, does not mean it does not happen.
    But they can make a point of announcing it. Nothing stops them from calling a press conference of sorts and announcing that as their official policy. Nothing says they have to announce every time they throw an extremist out, just that they actually do it. It's just that whenever these crazies do something insane, you almost always find out that they were a member of the religious community in good standing.

    Half of their priests would be in jail and most of their flock would be on religious trial for moral corruption. ..
    And that's a bad thing how? Clearly the RCC doesn't give a damn if their priests molest kids, except for all the money they have to keep shelling out in settlements, but they know their congregations will keep on filling up the buckets of cash.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #104
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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The guy that attacked Gabby Gifford wasn't a terrorist and the only people calling him terrorists are liberals that want to desensitize everyone to the meaning of the word by using it willy-nilly for any violent act.
    Wait a minute.. he went after "left wing" politicians and sympathizers and has known links to the right wing and right wing views... Did he attack Gifford and the others because of their political views? yes.. hence it is a terrorist attack and he is a terrorist.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Wait a minute.. he went after "left wing" politicians and sympathizers and has known links to the right wing and right wing views... Did he attack Gifford and the others because of their political views? yes.. hence it is a terrorist attack and he is a terrorist.
    Oh, give it a feckin' break. If I punched you in the mouth because I despise your pinko politics, it wouldn't be "terrorism". It would just be me engaging in assault and battery; a crime, but not feckin' terrorism. You lefties need to get a grip on reality. Every incident that involves violence and politics isn't "Terrorism" no matter how much it suits your agenda to try to render the word meaningless.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  6. #106
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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by youngturk View Post
    Sorry,I don't see any Muslims speaking out.
    You need to pay more attention then. I'll just repost from another thread on this topic.

    There was a joint prayer session that included an Imam, a Rabbi and a priest at Lakemba Mosque last night too. I imagine the radicals weren't thrilled about that show of unity either.

    Ah well, too bad.


    Sydney siege: Grand Mufti of Australia condemns Martin Place attack

    Muslim community 'shocked' by Sydney cafe siege, say 'misguided' individuals misrepresenting faith - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/25...ey-cafe-siege/

    Australian Muslims condemn 'madman' gunman as #illridewithyou trends | SBS News

    "The guy was a total outcast," said Australian Iranian man Yavar Tayebi. "No one in our community, none of the Iranian Shiites, wanted a bar of him."

    "You take one look and think, he is an idiot," said Sheik Mousselmani, President of the Supreme Islamic Shia Council of Australia, who warned Federal Police about Monis in 2008. "Nothing about him added up."


    Martin Place gunman deranged, deluded and dangerous
    Why do we fall?
    So we can learn to pick ourselves up.

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by youngturk View Post
    How is that hashtag going to make everything better?We won't be talking about it tomorrow.

    Muslims can destroy Islamophobia only if they protest extremism.Sorry,I don't see any Muslims speaking out.Islam desperately needs a reform.
    Like most hashtag campaigns, one likely won't see big results. But what is important is that Australia's Muslim Leaders condemned the hostage event as it was underway.

    From BBC coverage:

    04:10: The Grand Mufti of Australia has issued a statement in which he condemns the siege in Martin Place.

    "The Grand Mufti and the Australian National Imams Council condemn this criminal act unequivocally and reiterate that such actions are denounced in part and in whole in Islam.

    "His Eminence the Grand Mufti, the Australian National Imams Council and the Muslim community express their full support and solidarity with their victims and their families and aspire to a peaceful resolve to this calamity."


    I do agree with you that more influential Muslim clerics worldwide need to take more forceful stands against such acts.

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Muslims have no no connection to attacks from Muslims?

    When the Catholic Church tried to cover up the molestation of children many Catholics quit in disgust, yet nothing similar appears to be happening in Islam. Christians are being slaughtered by Muslims in Africa, for example, and there have been no Muslims marching in the streets asking that it be stopped.

    Yes, innocent and law abiding citizens should not be vilified for their faith, unless that 'faith' is subjugating and oppressing human rights and freedoms and the bodies start piling up. Sometimes 'faith' is overrated and beliefs simply nonsense. We all know that.

    People must expect to be responsible for their beliefs, and what group they belong to, or expect criticism. This is just the way it works in the adult world and Muslims should either be prepared for it, or do something positive about it. But playing the victim card when it is members of their faith creating international terrorism is not a ploy that can continue indefinitely.
    My point was that there are many law-abiding Muslims who are not involved in radical or extremist movements. They should not be grouped with the radical and extremist Islamists.

    Like you, I believe people should more widely speak out about oppressive and brutal practices, whether such practices originate from religious or secular ideologies. On that point, we don't disagree.

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Wait a minute.. he went after "left wing" politicians and sympathizers and has known links to the right wing and right wing views... Did he attack Gifford and the others because of their political views? yes.. hence it is a terrorist attack and he is a terrorist.
    That was proven false long ago.

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    Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    My point was that there are many law-abiding Muslims who are not involved in radical or extremist movements. They should not be grouped with the radical and extremist Islamists.
    I can't see why not. We were fighting Germans in WWII and didn't differentiate beween good' Germans or 'bad' Germans. The same applies to every war, or group of people.

    A decade ago we might have sympathized with those whose fellow adherents were committing horrific crimes in Allah's name but not so much now. That excuse has long worn thin with no progress being made. In fact Islamism is growing and becoming more powerful, as we can see through the Middle East, Africa and Asia. Muslims are consistently the first ones to gain sympathy whenever these terrorist acts occur, and that's grown stale. Time to start blaming the source.

    Like you, I believe people should more widely speak out about oppressive and brutal practices, whether such practices originate from religious or secular ideologies. On that point, we don't disagree.
    Do it and you'll be called an "Islamophobe". Are you morally prepared for these put downs and heartaches???

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