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Thread: Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

  1. #21
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    Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Are you saying you are in favour of giving the Wall Street banks federal insurance in the event that playing with depositors money causes them to approach failure? A provision in the funding bill that is almost word for word from a letter sent by Citibank to Congress, you approve?
    Of the idea? No. Do I approve of her methods? Absolutely not. You don't act like an insurrectionist. It's no better than the messianic Tea Partiers.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, j-mac.

    Can you believe the chutzpah? The sad thing is that at the schools mentioned, they will probably receive a pat on the head and the exams will be delayed. That's assuming no more protests are scheduled, though! Sheesh! : At the college I attended, the only excuse for missing an exam was if the Highway Patrol deemed it was too chancy to drive, due to weather conditions, or you had a death in the immediate family. Period! And both were verified by the powers that be.
    Hey there pol...

    Yeah it's nuts...I heard on the radio in the case of Harvard, they were announcing grief counselors for those fragile souls that are just too traumatized to move forward.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hey there pol...

    Yeah it's nuts...I heard on the radio in the case of Harvard, they were announcing grief counselors for those fragile souls that are just too traumatized to move forward.
    In many cultures they used to hire professional mourners when a person died - they still do in many parts of the world, including the ME. Now these mourners were hired to show grief at a person's death - not riot and burn buildings down, but hey, times change. Anyway, maybe we could look into that since it would not disrupt exam taking and other important events in a person's life; grief would be bought and paid for by someone who has been trained in showing grief at its finest; and the more mourners the more important the person being honored. They did a booming business in ancient Egypt, and everyone was happy to see the dead suitably honored. It sounds like a win-win to me, because they didn't even have to know the dead person - much like what is going on today.

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    Re: Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    She's the political mirror-image of Ted Cruz.
    And yet, they both agreed, in that neither supported the deal for the same reasons. Hmm. Interesting.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    In many cultures they used to hire professional mourners when a person died - they still do in many parts of the world, including the ME. Now these mourners were hired to show grief at a person's death - not riot and burn buildings down, but hey, times change. Anyway, maybe we could look into that since it would not disrupt exam taking and other important events in a person's life; grief would be bought and paid for by someone who has been trained in showing grief at its finest; and the more mourners the more important the person being honored. They did a booming business in ancient Egypt, and everyone was happy to see the dead suitably honored. It sounds like a win-win to me, because they didn't even have to know the dead person - much like what is going on today.
    Yeah, just think, in a few years these grads, are going to be sporting a Harvard law degree. I sure wouldn't want to have that person as my lawyer, and have them tell me, "Sorry, I can't work for you today because something I saw on the news traumatized me..."
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

    The WaPo is really trying to promote her now.

    Sen. Warren was told to be quiet. She spoke out.

    In her book released this year, Sen. Elizabeth Warren recounted a dinner she had with President Obama’s chief economic adviser, Larry Summers, in April 2009, when Warren was the outspoken chairman of a congressionally appointed panel probing the government’s response to the financial crisis.
    Larry leaned back in his chair and offered me some advice. ... He teed it up this way: I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say whatever they want. But people on the inside don’t listen to them. Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule. They don’t criticize other insiders.
    I had been warned.
    Warren ignored the warning.
    And if the past few weeks are any indication, she can operate as an insider without giving her up outsider credentials. She’s remained outspoken, but has become even more influential. She hasn't stopped throwing bombs at the rich and powerful — and causing trouble for the White House — but she's won a spot in Senate leadership, changed the shape of congressional debates over financial regulation and continued to draw widespread attention as a potential presidential candidate. . . .
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The WaPo is really trying to promote her now.

    Sen. Warren was told to be quiet. She spoke out.

    In her book released this year, Sen. Elizabeth Warren recounted a dinner she had with President Obama’s chief economic adviser, Larry Summers, in April 2009, when Warren was the outspoken chairman of a congressionally appointed panel probing the government’s response to the financial crisis.
    Larry leaned back in his chair and offered me some advice. ... He teed it up this way: I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say whatever they want. But people on the inside don’t listen to them. Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule. They don’t criticize other insiders.
    I had been warned.
    Warren ignored the warning.
    And if the past few weeks are any indication, she can operate as an insider without giving her up outsider credentials. She’s remained outspoken, but has become even more influential. She hasn't stopped throwing bombs at the rich and powerful — and causing trouble for the White House — but she's won a spot in Senate leadership, changed the shape of congressional debates over financial regulation and continued to draw widespread attention as a potential presidential candidate. . . .
    This is what happens when liberals become overzealous and foolishly shed their "sane Party" image. When the Tea Party was coming about, liberals were right to observe that Tea Partiers were seemingly incapable of doing politics modestly and correctly. They began to promote the idea that the Democratic Party was the Party of practical problem solvers and capable of taking ideas from "the other isle" and implementing them in government policy.

    Now the narrative is that Obama wasn't liberal enough in his health care reform (as if it would have made any sense in 2009 for Obama to be more liberal with moderate Democrats still in power to begin with), adopted too much of the Bush foreign policy (as if Obama could divorce himself from his immediate predecessor's conflicts and the inherent necessity to continue the War on Terror), and had too comfortable a relationship with the corporate world (once again, as if there are a great many more options of note). Conservatives said the same nonsense about Reagan and liberals said the same tripe about Clinton in their waning years.

    Warren's path is that of the unnecessary obstructionist. She makes populist liberals feel proud in a way that populist conservatives feel glee whenever Ted Cruz bludgeons himself over the halls of Congress. It may look good, but it accomplishes nothing. In this instance, Warren may have lost and the legislation moved forward anyway, but under the right circumstances she will come off as nothing better than a destructive force.

    If liberals want to follow the path of the Republican Party to isolating everyone but their passionate small base, they are welcome to do so. They will lose and drive themselves into a short term irrelevancy. This is because it becomes little more than masturbatory politics and no one is interested in such solipsistic pursuits. The Republican Party will be more than willing to drive a wedge in the Democrat's outside coalition layers for a bit under a decade.

    There is nothing more foolish than the thought that Party purity is the answer. When liberals and conservatives are empirically drifting apart in any sense of the commons and each has the ability to tank any potential legislation, it makes no sense for a political party to only placate their bases. They need the center not only to win elections, but also to govern and negotiate deals. Center politics is where the action has always been, but it only becomes more powerful with greater ideological divides. If you want to conquer the landscape, look no further than trying to suck away some of your enemy's supporters.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 12-16-14 at 11:35 AM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  8. #28
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    Re: Battle Over Bill Exposes Dem Rift

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    This is what happens when liberals become overzealous and foolishly shed their "sane Party" image. When the Tea Party was coming about, liberals were right to observe that Tea Partiers were seemingly incapable of doing politics modestly and correctly. They began to promote the idea that the Democratic Party was the Party of practical problem solvers and capable of taking ideas from "the other isle" and implementing them in government policy.

    Now the narrative is that Obama wasn't liberal enough in his health care reform (as if it would have made any sense in 2009 for Obama to be more liberal with moderate Democrats still in power to begin with), adopted too much of the Bush foreign policy (as if Obama could divorce himself from his immediate predecessor's conflicts and the inherent necessity to continue the War on Terror), and had too comfortable a relationship with the corporate world (once again, as if there are a great many more options of note). Conservatives said the same nonsense about Reagan and liberals said the same tripe about Clinton in their waning years.

    Warren's path is that of the unnecessary obstructionist. She makes populist liberals feel proud in a way that populist conservatives feel glee whenever Ted Cruz bludgeons himself over the halls of Congress. It may look good, but it accomplishes nothing. In this instance, Warren may have lost and the legislation moved forward anyway, but under the right circumstances she will come off as nothing better than a destructive force.

    If liberals want to follow the path of the Republican Party to isolating everyone but their passionate small base, they are welcome to do so. They will lose and drive themselves into a short term irrelevancy. This is because it becomes little more than masturbatory politics and no one is interested in such solipsistic pursuits. The Republican Party will be more than willing to drive a wedge in the Democrat's outside coalition layers for a bit under a decade.

    There is nothing more foolish than the thought that Party purity is the answer. When liberals and conservatives are empirically drifting apart in any sense of the commons and each has the ability to tank any potential legislation, it makes no sense for a political party to only placate their bases. They need the center not only to win elections, but also to govern and negotiate deals. Center politics is where the action has always been, but it only becomes more powerful with greater ideological divides. If you want to conquer the landscape, look no further than trying to suck away some of your enemy's supporters.
    Superior post.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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