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Thread: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Washington (AFP) - The US Congress unanimously approved fresh economic sanctions against Russia and lethal weapons for Kiev, defying President Barack Obama and hardening American lawmakers' response to a Kremlin-backed insurgency in Ukraine.

    Identical texts of the Ukraine Freedom Support Act passed both the Senate and House of Representatives on Thursday, but because of a technical issue it returned to the Senate where it passed by unanimous consent moments before the chamber adjourned late Saturday night. The current legislation authorizes $350 million worth of weapons, defense equipment and training for Ukraine over three years.

    It is now up to Obama to either sign or veto the measure. The White House said Thursday it was "looking at it.".....snip~

    US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine

    Naturally, The Russians once they heard this was coming down the pipe, told us. It will require a response from them. Was this a smart move by the Congress? Bo peep already has a failed policy with the Russians. In which they have exerted some muscle with us on a few occasions.

    Shouldn't we be focusing our attention elsewhere? Like on BO's failed policy with Iran. What say ye?

    Oh btw.....can someone let the Lib Writer at the AFP know when a country sends arms. That they are usually lethal.
    It depends on our intended course as a country. We have been a world leader in the past but not so much in recent years. If we want to withdraw from wold leadership then we should leave things alone, bring the troops home and work on fixing our economy. If we want to return to being a world leader then what congress did is the correct approach. While the president has decided to withdraw, the congress has decided to return to world leadership. Now we need to get both branches of government on the same page. Personally I can go either way although I think withdrawing is the less expensive approach and therefore preferable.

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning, MMC.

    Since the Senate is still controlled by the Democrats, this means that Reid is doing what Obama wants him to do, so we need to consider the political pros and cons, from Obama's point of view, on this latest chess move. If he signs it, it looks like he's on the Ukrainians side on this matter, which is a slap at Putin. Will he sign it to get the attention off his ME failure? If he vetoes it, he can always say the people of the US have spoken, and avoid any personal blame. Unfortunately Putin knows how the political game is played even better than Obama does, and since the Ukraine is technically Russian territory, he could have troops there in a heartbeat. I don't think Putin will go that route, since he would know he is being baited. Putin has other ways to handle this - he could simply threaten to turn off the gas and oil deliveries to the Ukraine until they pay Russia the billions that they owe it. Putin's focus is not on the Ukraine - he got what he wanted by annexing the Crimea to give him the seaport he needed. He could complain to the UN that the US is interfering in Russia's business by aiding rebels in an internal affair that should be none of their concern. I think this was a stupid move by the Senate, but it will be interesting to see how Putin responds to the challenge. My opinion....

    Mornin' Lady P. That's true it is with the Demos control. Yet several Republicans were all for this. Especially for getting the Ukraine more arms.

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Shouldn't we be focusing our attention elsewhere? Like on BO's failed policy with Iran. What say ye?
    Iran is still not being cooperative and I personally no longer believe Iran is doable. With Western assistance, Ukraine is salvageable.


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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Ukraine is not Russian territory, technically or otherwise. It has been a sovereign and independent nation since the dissolution of the USSR in 1990-1991.
    That does not mean what you think it does. Part of Ukraine is made up of Russian descendants, hence our current problems with infighting within the nation now involving many outside nations because of. Yes, Ukraine is a sovereign nation but with real issues in governance... And trade with nations... And alliances with nations. Say what you will but from my chair Ukraine made plenty of their own problems happen on a scale begging for outside interference. Right or wrong, history will have to decide once Ukraine is done screwing things up.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    It depends on our intended course as a country. We have been a world leader in the past but not so much in recent years. If we want to withdraw from wold leadership then we should leave things alone, bring the troops home and work on fixing our economy. If we want to return to being a world leader then what congress did is the correct approach. While the president has decided to withdraw, the congress has decided to return to world leadership. Now we need to get both branches of government on the same page. Personally I can go either way although I think withdrawing is the less expensive approach and therefore preferable.

    Mornin Fmw. Well, what about those in Eastern Ukraine that don't want to be part of the Ukraine? Moreover what happens to the Ukraine without its major industrial sector?


    We still are World Power despite China surpassing us economically before they were suppose to. Much of this is due to BO's failed policies and not keeping up pace with those jobs. If BO's economics were working. China wouldn't have been able to surpass us until 2019 or 2020. Which would have been questionable if we were running at full capacity.

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    That does not mean what you think it does. Part of Ukraine is made up of Russian descendants, hence our current problems with infighting within the nation now involving many outside nations because of. Yes, Ukraine is a sovereign nation but with real issues in governance... And trade with nations... And alliances with nations. Say what you will but from my chair Ukraine made plenty of their own problems happen on a scale begging for outside interference. Right or wrong, history will have to decide once Ukraine is done screwing things up.
    They do indeed shoulder considerable blame for their situation. At core, that was what Maidan was about. Casting away the failed Soviet inheritances and turning Westward. Not everyone in Ukraine agrees with this path, but the vast majority not only support, but demand the changes required to better their national and personal condition.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well, what about those in Eastern Ukraine that don't want to be part of the Ukraine?
    Let them go. Unless Putin plans to prop them up with billions of rubles annually, they are doomed to be failed states.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Moreover what happens to the Ukraine without its major industrial sector?
    Most of it is old and antiquated. The economics of Donetsk/Luhansk won't work if they are not based on the Ukrainian currency.

    Sooner or later, Ukraine would have to remake itself to survive in the global economy. It must happen now sooner than anticipated.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Iran is still not being cooperative and I personally no longer believe Iran is doable. With Western assistance, Ukraine is salvageable.
    Mornin' Simplexity. I don't think they are Salvageable.....Putin is two steps ahead of everybody over there.

    Moreover what does it show adding Sanctions on to Russia why laxing them on Iran after Iran has gone beyond the date set, and terms they had agreed to. So they could ease those Sanctions. Which were hurting them.

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin Fmw. Well, what about those in Eastern Ukraine that don't want to be part of the Ukraine? Moreover what happens to the Ukraine without its major industrial sector?


    We still are World Power despite China surpassing us economically before they were suppose to. Much of this is due to BO's failed policies and not keeping up pace with those jobs. If BO's economics were working. China wouldn't have been able to surpass us until 2019 or 2020. Which would have been questionable if we were running at full capacity.

    Good morning.. Ultimately the affiairs of Ukaraine are the responsibility of the Ukranians. If they don't want to be absorbed by Russia they should fight Russia and they are doing so. We can either leave them alone or help them. It is a huge decision in my view because it is determined by our future goals about world leadership. As I said I can go either way. The problem for me is that the administration and the congress seem to have opposite positions on those goals.

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    Re: US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Let them go. Unless Putin plans to prop them up with billions of rubles annually, they are doomed to be failed states.


    Most of it is old and antiquated. The economics of Donetsk/Luhansk won't work if they are not based on the Ukrainian currency.

    Sooner or later, Ukraine would have to remake itself to survive in the global economy. It must happen now sooner than anticipated.


    Do you think we can get the Ukraine to let them go? If they fail they will be absorbed by Russia.

    We need to get a handle on the ME and more importantly Africa. ASAP!

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