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ISIS leader: If There Was No US Prison in Iraq There Would Have Been No ISIS

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ISIS leader: "If there was no American prison in Iraq, there would be no ISIS"

Isis: the inside story | Martin Chulov | World news | The Guardian

“But as time went on, every time there was a problem in the camp, he was at the centre of it,” Abu Ahmed recalled. “He wanted to be the head of the prison – and when I look back now, he was using a policy of conquer and divide to get what he wanted, which was status. And it worked.” By December 2004, Baghdadi was deemed by his jailers to pose no further risk and his release was authorised.

“He was respected very much by the US army,” Abu Ahmed said. “If he wanted to visit people in another camp he could, but we couldn’t. And all the while, a new strategy, which he was leading, was rising under their noses, and that was to build the Islamic State. If there was no American prison in Iraq, there would be no IS now. Bucca was a factory. It made us all. It built our ideology.”

As Isis has rampaged through the region, it has been led by men who spent time in US detention centres during the American occupation of Iraq – in addition to Bucca, the US also ran Camp Cropper, near Baghdad airport, and, for an ill-fated 18 months early in the war, Abu Ghraib prison on the capital’s western outskirts. Many of those released from these prisons – and indeed, several senior American officers who ran detention operations – have admitted that the prisons had an incendiary effect on the insurgency.

There you go, straight from the horses' mouth. Pretty damning evidence that US foreign policy fuels the creation of terrorists.
 
Eh -- kind of convenient to say that now that the report is released. I'm not saying it isn't true, but it does have an aroma of propaganda coming from it.
 
You believe what the devil tells you. He tells you what you want to hear to deceive you.

If you listen to the Devil you want and he wants.

So ignore reality and studies that prove US foreign policy encourages terrorism for the sake of pseudo religious babble? Well, thats you.
 
There will always be a reason for terrorism. It comes down to a different day, a different flavor.
 
There you go, straight from the horses' mouth. Pretty damning evidence that US foreign policy fuels the creation of terrorists.
Did you actually read your article? It explicitly states that the core leadership were already part of sunni militia groups sympathetic to Al Qaeda, and that the prison merely provided an opportunity to coalesce. US foreign policy did not create the radical ideology that fuels ISIS, that's merely a pitiful piece of propaganda pushed by those who wish to see us vacate the region altogether.
 
So ignore reality and studies that prove US foreign policy encourages terrorism for the sake of pseudo religious babble? Well, thats you.

You're ignoring the fact terrorism started long before it reached our shores. '72 Olympics ring a bell with you?
 
Did you actually read your article? It explicitly states that the core leadership were already part of sunni militia groups sympathetic to Al Qaeda, and that the prison merely provided an opportunity to coalesce. US foreign policy did not create the radical ideology that fuels ISIS, that's merely a pitiful piece of propaganda pushed by those who wish to see us vacate the region altogether.

Read your own bolded part and then explain how this would have happened had there been no US prison over there and also please explain how did these Sunnis became sympathetic to AQ had the US not invaded then get back with me.
 
You're ignoring the fact terrorism started long before it reached our shores. '72 Olympics ring a bell with you?
What did the 72 Olympics have to do with the US?
 
What did the 72 Olympics have to do with the US?

There ya go.....it didn't. Yet the terrorists were there. They don't need a reason other than the fact that the world isn't all muslim.
It's strange that you would give credence to what a terrorist would say. They will say anything
 
ISIS are just a band of psychopathic murderer's who even violate fellow Muslims..

This ain't about America or anyone else..

It is power they seek..Muslim or not..

And they've got it...endless funding..training camps..I hear that now in parts of Syria..people have to pay a tax to drive up certain roads...

This has nothing to do with Islam..
 
Read your own bolded part and then explain how this would have happened had there been no US prison over there and also please explain how did these Sunnis became sympathetic to AQ had the US not invaded then get back with me.
:lol: Al Qaeda self identifies as sunni fundamentalists, and did so well before the invasion of Iraq. You're citing US foreign policy for the creation of Terrorists, when in fact it was our premature exit from the region that gave them the opportunity and vaccumm in which to act on their impulses.
 
ISIS leader: "If there was no American prison in Iraq, there would be no ISIS"

Isis: the inside story | Martin Chulov | World news | The Guardian



There you go, straight from the horses' mouth. Pretty damning evidence that US foreign policy fuels the creation of terrorists.

Let's for a minute credit that after the Iraq invasion/war in 2003, many of the current IS leadership who just happened to be leading commanders in Saddam Hussein's army were imprisoned for crimes against the Iraqi people. Let's also credit that they "coalesced" in the common prison used by the Iraqis and Americans to house them while they served their sentences.

How does that lead to the rampage that is IS in Syria and Iraq today? You are aware that these "leaders" were for the most part Saddam's henchmen when he was in charge, using chemical weapons to gas the Kurds in the north and using all means of far more egregious torture tactics against Saddam's own people than America would ever dream of. And if America created them, why aren't they reserving their rampage and atrocities strictly for Americans? Why are Syrian and Kurdish and even fellow Sunni Iraqis being slaughtered by the thousands in resistance of a Muslim caliphate? What did these people do to "offend" these leaders you now want to credit with honest reflection?

These "leaders" actually got off lightly - most were imprisoned for a few short years before the new Iraqi government released them. Perhaps the only error in this regard that America made was not executing all of them or insisting on their imprisonment for life.

America didn't create this - Islamic fascism and hateful teachings did that long before America ever got involved with Iraq.
 
So ignore reality and studies that prove US foreign policy encourages terrorism for the sake of pseudo religious babble? Well, thats you.

The reality is that we can play "who did what first" all way back to the creation of Islam in the 7th century.

ISIL has no need for a reason for provocation. They do as they wish. They make up their reasoning and justification as they go along.
 
Read your own bolded part and then explain how this would have happened had there been no US prison over there and also please explain how did these Sunnis became sympathetic to AQ had the US not invaded then get back with me.
It's not about prisoners... ISIS has plenty prisoners itself. It's not only about the US either... as ISIS despises all Shia nations and most ME Sunni governments.

What it is about is power, dominance, and an Islamist caliphate that is governed under a strict interpretation of Sharia Law .
 
Eh -- kind of convenient to say that now that the report is released. I'm not saying it isn't true, but it does have an aroma of propaganda coming from it.

Of course it is either true, or it is false.

I think there is a very large element of truth in the old saying that "those to whom evil is done, do evil in return." That, credit to W.H. Auden in WWII.
 
Of course it is either true, or it is false.

I think there is a very large element of truth in the old saying that "those to whom evil is done, do evil in return." That, credit to W.H. Auden in WWII.

Which is the mirror opposite of the Golden Rule - treat others the way you want to be treated.

So it is only natural - **** with someone and they'll **** with you.

Yeah, I get that -- I still find it convenient, timing and all. But, perhaps they were aiming for maximum effect. :shrug:
 
ISIS leader: "If there was no American prison in Iraq, there would be no ISIS"

Isis: the inside story | Martin Chulov | World news | The Guardian



There you go, straight from the horses' mouth. Pretty damning evidence that US foreign policy fuels the creation of terrorists.

Whats the alternative, let them keep killing people who dont agree with their religion? Thats what got them in prison in the first place. That prison doesnt rehabilitate violent criminals is no surprise. What this proves is that you can never let them out.
 
Simpleχity;1064085804 said:
It's not about prisoners... ISIS has plenty prisoners itself. It's not only about the US either... as ISIS despises all Shia nations and most ME Sunni governments.

What it is about is power, dominance, and an Islamist caliphate that is governed under a strict interpretation of Sharia Law .

It's about what you get when you take down a dictator that was fully contained and in no way a threat to the United States. Had we never gone into Iraq, and just merely continued the policy of containment, there would be no ISIS today.
 
Which is the mirror opposite of the Golden Rule - treat others the way you want to be treated.

So it is only natural - **** with someone and they'll **** with you.

Yeah, I get that -- I still find it convenient, timing and all. But, perhaps they were aiming for maximum effect. :shrug:

One is a Rule, the other merely an observation. :)

Are the chickens coming home to roost, as far as the decades-long brutalization of the Mideast by US policy?
 
Whats the alternative, let them keep killing people who dont agree with their religion? Thats what got them in prison in the first place. That prison doesnt rehabilitate violent criminals is no surprise. What this proves is that you can never let them out.

We have to do what we are doing over there today, there is no real alternative at this point. However, we should not forget that had we never gone into Iraq back in 2003 and continued the policy of containment and thus left Saddam in power, there would be no ISIS today.

If you throw a grenade in an outhouse there is going to be **** everywhere, but lets not forget who the bunch were that wanted to do it in first place.
 
One is a Rule, the other merely an observation. :)

Are the chickens coming home to roost, as far as the decades-long brutalization of the Mideast by US policy?

Blowback has never stopped from our involvement in the Middle East -- actions/reactions.
 
ISIS leader: "If there was no American prison in Iraq, there would be no ISIS"

Isis: the inside story | Martin Chulov | World news | The Guardian

There you go, straight from the horses' mouth. Pretty damning evidence that US foreign policy fuels the creation of terrorists.

I am not entirely convinced ISIS exists exclusively because of US Prisons in Iraq. But I will stipulate that the images of what we did there did nothing but help anger future generations. It also did not help things that we installed a government in Iraq that ultimately took groups within the nation and politically and socially isolated them from representation. Right or wrong, that was bound to cause eventual problems among a people that historically do not get along.

What we cannot forget is the majority of those that make up ISIS today have been there a very long time, being able to now take advantage of a long term multiple way civil war in one nation and a weakened military and government in another. The former the US has some culpability in, the latter is almost entirely our fault. But what they are fighting is ideological, rooted in religion that is totally incompatible with more western governmental thinking.

What I would offer as the main ingredient to ensuring ISIS happened is our long term confusing and hypocritical foreign policy filled with plenty of images along the way that was sure to upset plenty of people.
 
While I certainly don't believe what I hear from ISIS it is hard to deny that they would not be the force they are today without our actions.
 
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