• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

ocean515 said:
I think you got that confused there. When you shut down job opportunities for young people, and lock people into a slot titled "Living Wage", "Here's nothing more" becomes your preamble and mission statement.

That's rather hateful in my book.
Click to expand...

Yes, everyone knows that it's called "minimum wage" because once you make that, you're "lock into" it and can't make more
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

imagep said:
Someone else said it was to boost demand, someone else said it was to outprice the value of child labor, someone else said it was to incentivize capital investment.

I wish you guys could make up your mind.
Click to expand...

I was the one who said it was to boost demand, and I posted the link that proved it. It was passed during the depression in order to put money in people's pocket and it wasn't meant to outprice child labor out of the market because the same law that established the first MW at $0.25/hr also outlawed child labor. IOW, they didn't have to set a MW to get children out of the labor market - they outlawed child labor instead.

Here's the link again
http://www.dol.gov/dol/aboutdol/history/flsa1938.htm
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

cpwill said:
By that standard, every form of employment is monopsony
Click to expand...

So jobs which go unfilled because there aren't enough people who know how to do them are experiencing monopsony? :screwy

I think you need to go Google the meaning of the word again
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

US Conservative said:
If an employers labor expenses are raised through legislation, the employer has the options of reducing the number of hours worked by each employee, or of laying off an employee.
Click to expand...

Spoken like someone who has never run their own business.

There are a number of additional options the business owner has such as cutting non-labor expenses (ex expenses for materials by buying cheaper materials), reducing non-wage compensation (such as vacation time) reducing profits, raising capital by selling company owned stock, and several other options.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Deuce said:
Your employer is "willing" to pay the absolute minimum possible.

However, the value of that labor is higher than the pay. By definition.
Click to expand...

Value is relative. If your work is as valuable as you want to claim, then you will be paid and treated according. All that truly matters is the price you are willing to charge and the price the employer is willing to pay.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
Wage floors are not price controls

We have different terms for them because they're two different things.
Click to expand...

They are different terms because they are different words. The concept is the same. Wage Floor, Wage Ceiling, etc. They are both Price controls.

Price controls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
Spoken like someone who has never run their own business.

There are a number of additional options the business owner has such as cutting non-labor expenses (ex expenses for materials by buying cheaper materials), reducing non-wage compensation (such as vacation time) reducing profits, raising capital by selling company owned stock, and several other options.
Click to expand...

My list was not exhaustive.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
No, the reason was to stimulate the economy where there was a lack of demand due to wages being so low.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/aboutdol/history/flsa1938.htm
Click to expand...

I'm sure that is what you would love to believe, but the idea was to keep child labor from the market. More children took on responsibilities during the Great Depression, finding jobs when their parents could not. There were many initiatives instituted to free up labour for adults, such as the NRA, which used "fair codes and competition" to forbid the use of children under 16 in industrial jobs.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

US Conservative said:
My list was not exhaustive.
Click to expand...

Understatement of the year :lamo

But your post was obviously worded to appear to be exhaustive. Either you thought it was exhaustive, or your post dishonestly portrayed it as exhaustive even though you knew it was not

I believe you were honest, and thought it was exhaustive until other posters schooled you on how business works
 
Last edited:
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

WallStreetVixen said:
I'm sure that is what you would love to believe, but the idea was to keep child labor from the market
Click to expand...

Wrong.

The law which created the MW kept child labor out of market but not by setting a MW. It kept child labor out of the market by banning child (anyone under the age of 16) labor

http://www.dol.gov/dol/aboutdol/history/flsa1938.htm

29 U.S. Code § 203 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/212
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
Your own link contradicts you and points out that price controls <> wage controls
Click to expand...

Where is the contradiction? From what I read, it says one of the main forms of a price control is a price floor.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
Wrong.

The law which created the MW kept child labor out of market but not by setting a MW. It kept child labor out of the market by banning child (anyone under the age of 16) labor

http://www.dol.gov/dol/aboutdol/history/flsa1938.htm

29 U.S. Code § 203 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute
Click to expand...

You're not saying anything but telling me what the law currently does. The intent, during the Great Depression, was to price child labour out of the market place. The goal was to ultimately eliminate child labor, but previous attempts have failed. The original FLSA didn't ban child labor. It placed limits on it. Originally, FLSA excluded children who worked in agriculture. As a result, children under 16 were priced out of dangerous industrial jobs and there was a surge in agricultural child employment.

Plenty of books have been written on this...
 
Last edited:
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
Understatement of the year :lamo

But your post was obviously worded to appear to be exhaustive. Either you thought it was exhaustive, or your post dishonestly portrayed it as exhaustive even though you knew it was not

I believe you were honest, and thought it was exhaustive until other posters schooled you on how business works
Click to expand...

Its remarkable that you know the telos of other posters. Magical even.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

WallStreetVixen said:
You're not saying anything but telling me what the law currently does. The intent, during the Great Depression, was to price child labour out of the market place. The goal was to ultimately eliminate child labor, but previous attempts have failed. The original FLSA didn't ban child labor. It placed limits on it. Originally, FLSA excluded children who worked in agriculture. As a result, children under 16 were priced out of dangerous industrial jobs and there was a surge in agricultural child employment.

Plenty of books have been written on this...
Click to expand...

The law that passed in 1938, the same law which implemented the first MW at $0.25/hr, banned child labor so it didn't need a MW to price child labor out of the market.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

WallStreetVixen said:
Wages are the price employers pay for labour/employment. Price floor = wage floor.
Click to expand...

No, economists (and the link you posted) differentiate between wages and prices which is why they (and the link you posted) differentiate between price controls and wage controls.

Try again
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
No, economists (and the link you posted) differentiate between wages and prices which is why they (and the link you posted) differentiate between price controls and wage controls.

Try again
Click to expand...

Where does it do that? Again, it says one of the main forms of a price control is a price floor, and it references the minimum wage while doing that. If prices has nothing to do with wages, and a price floor isn't a wage floor what is the minimum wage even doing in the same paragraph as a price control?

Maybe its you who should be doing the trying...
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
The law that passed in 1938, the same law which implemented the first MW at $0.25/hr, banned child labor so it didn't need a MW to price child labor out of the market.
Click to expand...


It didn't ban child labour. It limited it. Later revisions to the FLSA removed child labour across all sectors.

Plenty of books written on that too...
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
Yes, everyone knows that it's called "minimum wage" because once you make that, you're "lock into" it and can't make more
Click to expand...

I was kind of hoping someone one with such substantial "credentials" here at DP could think with a little more clarity. When "living wage" gets plugged into the equation, how is an employee supposed to advance? Wait for the next determination of what it takes to live to come down the pipe? Who is going to vacate these "minimum wage" jobs so that new people (that's typically young people) can get their first jobs?

If you think those locked into the newly determined "living wage" are going to see more opportunities to advance, what is holding them back from doing it now?

It would be nice if rational ideas ever permeated from the invented from emotion liberal/progressive agenda. At least those ideas could be discussed with some degree of reality included in the discussion.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

sangha said:
So jobs which go unfilled because there aren't enough people who know how to do them are experiencing monopsony? :screwy

I think you need to go Google the meaning of the word again
Click to expand...

Do you have the reading comprehension to understand that I was demonstrating the failure of that application of the term "monopsony"?

I don't need to google - Monopsony is the flip side of Monopoly - except where Monopoly means there is effectively only one seller, Monopsony means there is effectively only one buyer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom