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Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

How do you explain that while while less than 3% of the US workforce makes the MW that 15% (or more) rely on the "safety net"?

Because the minimum wage is too low, thus even people who make a little more than minimum wage qualify for some sort of means tested welfare.

Also because it's probably too easy to qualify for welfare.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

It pretty much does work that way. Higher wages increases demand and market activity which in turn increases profits.

The Top 1% appreciates those profits. The question is how many new jobs will they create.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Why do you say that? Do we tax welfare?

No, you simply tax welfare recipients' increased income from their employment, which is offset by thousands of dollars in lost income due to extra taxes and lost transfer payments (more than $15,000, depending on what study you look at).

This is why there is a general disincentive for people who receive such subsidies to increase their income, and why government transfer payments will never decline, no matter what minimum you set wages at.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

No, you simply tax welfare recipients' increased income from their employment, which is offset by thousands of dollars in lost income due to extra taxes and lost transfer payments (more than $15,000, depending on what study you look at).

This is why there is a general disincentive for people who receive such subsidies to increase their income, and why government transfer payments will never decline, no matter what minimum you set wages at.

Which would make for a good reason that any increase in min wage should be tied to a decrease in welfare by law.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

No it wouldn't. How would it create jobs? Do employers hire employees because it's cheap, or cheaper, to do so, or do they hire employees because they have **** for those employees to do? Think this through.

You dont think there are employers out there that need help but cannot afford it?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

You dont think there are employers out there that need help but cannot afford it?

If they need help, then they can afford more help.

The only reason that a company would need more help is because it's sales are increasing. When it's sales are increasing, so is it's profitability. When a companies profitability is increasing, it can afford to pay for more help.

Typically, companies only have just enough employees to handle demand. I mean why would any company hire more people than they need (regardless of how cheaply they can hire them)?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Because the minimum wage is too low, thus even people who make a little more than minimum wage qualify for some sort of means tested welfare.

Also because it's probably too easy to qualify for welfare.

One must remember that for every $1 of wage increase that at least $0.153 of it goes directly to the federal government via payroll taxes. Each $6.50 in wages generates at least $1 more for the federal government to waste. The benefit of means tested "welfare" is that it goes only to those with dependents and does not increase the cost of living nearly as much as an across the board pay raise for all workers will. As long as the nation is willing to give the required COLA bump to those living of fixed incomes it may be worth a try to raise the MW to the inflation adjusted equivalent of the 1968 MW - or to about $10.60/hour.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Is it? There is no shortage of these jobs. Has anyone, ever in the history, not been able to find a minimum wage job for an extended period of time? I don't think it's a big concern. No one is out there going, "God dammit, I can't get a job paying minimum wage at McDonalds or Walmart anymore!".

But hey, it's their bed so they should lay in it right? If they just worked harder they could have a better job anyway.



at the height of the recession there were about 4 unemployed for every job opening total, right?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

One must remember that for every $1 of wage increase that at least $0.153 of it goes directly to the federal government via payroll taxes. Each $6.50 in wages generates at least $1 more for the federal government to waste.

You are making the assumption that there is a connection between payroll taxes ( or taxes in general). But that is obviously not true, because if government spending was restricted to tax revenue, then we would never have a budget deficit.

The benefit of means tested "welfare" is that it goes only to those with dependents and does not increase the cost of living nearly as much as an across the board pay raise for all workers will. As long as the nation is willing to give the required COLA bump to those living of fixed incomes it may be worth a try to raise the MW to the inflation adjusted equivalent of the 1968 MW - or to about $10.60/hour.

I agree.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

The Top 1% appreciates those profits. The question is how many new jobs will they create.


didn't you hear, next year trickle down will finally kick in. just had to build up for 35 years first.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

at the height of the recession there were about 4 unemployed for every job opening total, right?

So even if every unemployed person had decided to accept a part time minimum wage job, there still wouldn't have been enough jobs for every unemployed person to have one.

Good point.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

didn't you hear, next year trickle down will finally kick in. just had to build up for 35 years first.

Where did I mention trickle down economics? Oh right, I didn't. What I said works on the same principle as welfare increasing companies profits.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

So even if every unemployed person had decided to accept a part time minimum wage job, there still wouldn't have been enough jobs for every unemployed person to have one.

Good point.


Unemployed Job Seekers per Opening (JOLTS data) - New York State Department of Labor
It was actually worse than 4, but anyways

correct, it's kind of just a worse version of having structural unemployment.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Where did I mention trickle down economics? Oh right, I didn't. What I said works on the same principle as welfare increasing companies profits.

Where did I say you did?
Oh right, I didn't.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Unemployed Job Seekers per Opening (JOLTS data) - New York State Department of Labor
It was actually worse than 4, but anyways

correct, it's kind of just a worse version of having structural unemployment.

And along the same line of thought, a lot of people were claiming that our unemployment situation was caused by not having enough STEM college grads ("get some job skills"). Even if every unemployment person had a doctorate in a STEM subject, there still wouldn't have been enough jobs to employ them all.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

If you cared about the working poor, you would want less of those jobs. Working those jobs is an accurate description of what Hell must be like.

If more people worked those types of jobs, people will gain some appreciation, but lets put some things in perspective. It's not hell. It's annoying, and it's frustrating, and its very demanding, but you're not going to be paid more simply because you complain about how annoying, frustrating or demanding your job is.

There are plenty of different professions where people complain about how they aren't paid enough for what they do. Ultimately, what defines your income is your productivity, and low wage sectors, like retail trade/leisure & hospitality generally contribute less to the economy than all the other sectors, in percentage terms anyway.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

...Ultimately, what defines your income is your productivity, and low wage sectors, like retail trade/leisure & hospitality generally contribute less to the economy than all the other sectors, in percentage terms anyway.

So Paris Hilton is very productive?

In an ideal world, income would be based upon productivity. We would have a meritocracy. In the real world, income is based upon negotiating power.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

How do you explain that while while less than 3% of the US workforce makes the MW that 15% (or more) rely on the "safety net"?

Tons of large corporate chains have an automatic pay raise after six months of 25 to 50 cents an hour. These people technically don't make minimum wage, but should still be counted when you throw around numbers like this.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

You've had 9 minimum wage increases since 1938, and somehow this keeps happening...

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This is because welfare programs increase effective marginal tax rates of low-income earners.

Minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation for like 50 years.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

So Paris Hilton is very productive?

In an ideal world, income would be based upon productivity. We would have a meritocracy. In the real world, income is based upon negotiating power.

In an ideal world would the price you pay for something be based upon how much money you have as well?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

In an ideal world would the price you pay for something be based upon how much money you have as well?

Nope.

I'm just pointing out that the real world doesn't work like libertarian rhetoric indicates it should.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Nope.

I'm just pointing out that the real world doesn't work like libertarian rhetoric indicates it should.

But yet you think the price people pay for labor should be based upon that they can afford it do you not? Why is the price of labor different than the price of pickles in your mind?
 
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