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Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

at the height of the recession there were about 4 unemployed for every job opening total, right?

And those people were searching for poverty-level wage jobs? Or were they holding out so as to not be underemployed and paid?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

It's pretty hellacious. I worked doing repo work - that was pretty terrible. Not quite hell, but close. Retail is possibly the definition of hell. But if it's not, I've also done blown insulation and I've worked as a mover. Both of those were depressing.

You are so tired and sore after 9-14 hours of hard manual labor that you really have no life outside of work. Wake up, to work. Come home, eat, go to bed. Wake up do it again. Weekend? Well, you might actually have to work on the weekend if it's busy and you need the money (which you will).

Sorry wife and kids.
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Your job is what you make out of it. Some people enjoy retail (I can't imagine who, but okay). Some people are people friendly. Other than fast food and restaurants, retail customers are probably the worst type of customers, but its not hell. You just take a bunch of crap. All jobs have situations where you take alot of crap. I can only see it as depressing if you plan on doing nothing better with your life. Its depressing (and hellish) if you don't enjoy your work. Even if you're not making that much money, you'll have some reasonable degree of tolerance for your job if there is something to look forward to.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

I said 50%. There are people who do actual work. A lot on Wall Street do actual hard work with long hours, but of course, it's for no reason because Wall Street is a giant facade that does nothing to help this country anymore.

But Doctors, scientists, construction, etc... these types of jobs earn their checks.

You're talking about hedge funds, traders and private equity firms. They make money for only wealthy investors, companies and firm managers. Financial Advisors (like me) work with different type of people, depending on who you decide to interact with, however, I've worked with retail and institutional investors. How we earn our checks isn't any different from how those occupations earn theirs. Being a broker is similar to being a small business owner, and you constantly need to attract clients. Considering that the bulk of your income will be on sales, you will probably have to attract at least $15 million dollars AUM to earn probably $60,000. They provide a service, just like any other profession by facilitating trades, and of course, they made additional money by making money for others.

In theory, anyone can try to learn the constant gyrations of the market, but that takes time and the learning curve is steep.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Not a bit of that makes any sense to me. Not one bit.

You should see what she has to say about Accounting 101 and Cost of Goods Sold
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

If our society was productive enough to support a min wage of $25/hr, without having any significant inflationary event, then I would be all for that.

There is a range which min wage can realistically be in. No one knows what the exact economic maximizing min wage is, but we know what the realistic range is.

The floor of that range would be just slightly higher than $0 (so let's call it a penny), and the maximum that the min wage could be (without guaranteeing significant inflation) would be the mean average income per work hour, which is close to $60/hr (GDP/aggregate work hours) - that's a law of mathematics. Now if we were at that maximimum possible amount, then everyone would make exactly the same thing, which wouldn't work well because I am sure that we can all agree that there are certain economic and social reasons why everyone shouldn't make the exact same wage - so I would suggest that maybe the realistic maximum possible min wage would be a quarter or maybe half of that, or around $30/hr (admittedly I just pulled that percentage out of my arse).

So yes, $25/hr may be possible, but that's most likely a little on the high side.

Why would you not want others to make as much money as is economically viable?

Everyone doesn't earn the same wage for the same reasons why everyone doesn't have the same job. It's economically infeasible and nothing would get done. There is really no difference in saying, 'everyone must be a farm' as opposed to saying, 'everyone must be paid equally, regardless if you are a farmer or a doctor.' But for the very same reason why a minimum wage can be a bad idea if practice. Two very different jobs with the same minimum wage makes the lesser productive job more expensive, and can potentially price these jobs out of the marketplace.

Not to say that people working these jobs will suddenly become unemployed, but these jobs will become rather difficult to come by. For example, the fact that I have to wait in a long line at the concession stand during an afterwork flick when there two cashiers and the booth has enough to man five cashiers.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

You should see what she has to say about Accounting 101 and Cost of Goods Sold

I don't see how its my fault your understanding of economics or accounting is limited.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Seems common sense to me, but i'm sure we'll still have people arguing that the CBO and this study are just wrong and it's all "win" for MW workers.

Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

The number of people who are dedicated to the notion that labor is uniquely not affected by the same laws of supply and demand as everything else never ceases to amaze me.

:( I feel bad for those people, and their families.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

And those people were searching for poverty-level wage jobs? Or were they holding out so as to not be underemployed and paid?

4 people.
1 job.

3 remain unemployed regardless.

math 101
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

The number of people who are dedicated to the notion that labor is uniquely not affected by the same laws of supply and demand as everything else never ceases to amaze me.

:( I feel bad for those people, and their families.


I feel bad for people who sympathize with "people" yet then simultaneously equate human labor with other capital.

Cake. Have it and eat it.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Doesn't matter what the minimum wage is. You pointed out that you do not hire more people because you have no need for them. Companies have no need for the people they are not hiring and are finding new ways to get rid of employees they do have. What you are you are doing is arguing that there should be a bigger gap between the haves and the have nots. I was not kidding about Walmart having a drive thru only store. Consumers want that. Walmart is also reducing the square footage of their new supercenters. Walmart is competing with Amazon prime. People can pay them an extra hundred bucks and have their pickles and many other groceries delivered to them from Amazon at no additional costs because people are too busy being their child's agent to take time to shop for their kids and are too much in a hurry to spend quality time with their friends on facebook. McDonalds is rolling out self-ordering kiosks at 2,000 US locations; Grocery stores have self-checkouts. There is a shrinking middle to the middle class. Minimum wage has nothing to do with that.

They are doing that because apparently there is demand for that. Not because of the existence of min wage. It would have happened anyhow.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

I feel bad for people who sympathize with "people" yet then simultaneously equate human labor with other capital.

Cake. Have it and eat it.

Yea, but people and pickles are just the same.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

They are doing that because apparently there is demand for that. Not because of the existence of min wage. It would have happened anyhow.

To an extent, but the cost-benefit analysis will still look at wage savings. Walmart delivers groceries in the UK but not in the US. There is demand for it certainly here, but they just have not figured out how to derive profit from it (that thing they call "scalability").
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

To an extent, but the cost-benefit analysis will still look at wage savings. Walmart delivers groceries in the UK but not in the US. There is demand for it certainly here, but they just have not figured out how to derive profit from it (that thing they call "scalability").

It's been tried over and over in the US and has always failed. I suspect it is because American consumers aren't responsible enough. It has to be mighty frustrating to deliver someone's groceries a the requested time, only to discover that they aren't home or to be attacked by the 7 dogs living under the trailer.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

I feel bad for people who sympathize with "people" yet then simultaneously equate human labor with other capital.

:shrug: my labor is a service that I provide. And I expect to be paid for it. Don't feel bad for me, because I take ownership of myself, and act accordingly, I do alright :)
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

It's been tried over and over in the US and has always failed. I suspect it is because American consumers aren't responsible enough. It has to be mighty frustrating to deliver someone's groceries a the requested time, only to discover that they aren't home or to be attacked by the 7 dogs living under the trailer.

Yet Walmart is considering it, among other things. They can make people pay online and drop them off at the door whether you are there or not at your own peril. Who knows what the model will look like when they finally deploy it. Home delivery doesn't always fail. It is the staple of pizza sales.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Yet Walmart is considering it, among other things. They can make people pay online and drop them off at the door whether you are there or not at your own peril. Who knows what the model will look like when they finally deploy it. Home delivery doesn't always fail. It is the staple of pizza sales.

The difference is that when people order pizza, it's for immediate use, so they are almost always going to be home. When people order groceries, it's highly likely that they aren't at home at the time they place the order, and thus may not be home when the order is placed.

Yup, they could be required to pay online, but there is still a big issue about animals getting to the food or the weather. I think people would probably have to have some sort of special container at their homes to accept the food.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

The difference is that when people order pizza, it's for immediate use, so they are almost always going to be home. When people order groceries, it's highly likely that they aren't at home at the time they place the order, and thus may not be home when the order is placed.

Yup, they could be required to pay online, but there is still a big issue about animals getting to the food or the weather. I think people would probably have to have some sort of special container at their homes to accept the food.

Sure. Not everyone will use the service and I am sure Walmart will look to see how they can attach a fee to it that both mitigates cost/loss and discourages 15,000 people from calling at 4:30 wanting a deli chicken on their doorstep at 5:15, or they could limit the options of what is available for delivery.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Nor is it supposed to. It's the 'minimum wage.'

There's that phrasing again. "Supposed to."

Why do people keep declaring that minimum wage isn't "supposed to" let you feed yourself?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

You mean to tell me that increased costs forces business to adjust their overhead?

Who'd a thunk it?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

There's that phrasing again. "Supposed to."

Why do people keep declaring that minimum wage isn't "supposed to" let you feed yourself?

Perhaps because it's presumed by the time someone is of working age, they are "supposed to" figure out what it will take to eat. I guess you're admitting those chronically paid at minimum wage have yet to learn that basic human instinct.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Perhaps because it's presumed by the time someone is of working age, they are "supposed to" figure out what it will take to eat. I guess you're admitting those chronically paid at minimum wage have yet to learn that basic human instinct.

And in the real world where a sufficient number of higher-paying jobs literally don't exist, what then?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

And in the real world where a sufficient number of higher-paying jobs literally don't exist, what then?

Create them on your own, work smarter, or starve. In it's basic form, what other alternatives are there? Slavery to a task master who will always hold the strings?

I worked in a gas station and washed dishes in a restaurant in High School. Put myself through college and grad school by working as a auto mechanic and a janitor at night. I don't understand the thinking that goes in to believing $3 more per hour will save a family.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Create them on your own, work smarter, or starve. In it's basic form, what other alternatives are there? Slavery to a task master who will always hold the strings?

I worked in a gas station and washed dishes in a restaurant in High School. Put myself through college and grad school by working as a auto mechanic and a janitor at night. I don't understand the thinking that goes in to believing $3 more per hour will save a family.

Do you think it's possible for everyone to do this?

Not any individual person. Of course any individual person can theoretically do this. Can everyone do this?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Do you think it's possible for everyone to do this?

Not any individual person. Of course any individual person can theoretically do this. Can everyone do this?

Forget theoretical. Why not? Some will do well, others will discover a different path they never considered, and still others will struggle, perhaps forever. For me, handing me $3-4/hr more, and in effect telling me to go away, all is well now, is a significant insult. This "living wage" crap is one of the most insulting and arrogant agendas I've seen come down the pipe in a long time.
 
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