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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Of course it is. I wasn't trying to write a long diatribe on the subject. However, basically and simply, no matter what we raise min wage to, in x number of years those making minimum wage will be back saying they can't afford to raise a family on that new dollar amount.
    But you're saying that based on no evidence at all. The real minimum wage has been essentially flat for 60 years. But you're right - if the minimum wage is raised, then stays flat for a decade and over time inflation erases all the gains, then people living on what is now 2/3 of the purchasing power of a decade ago will probably complain that it's hard to make ends meet.

    Bottom line is a raise improves living standards. Works for people on minimum wage same as it does for you.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    No, that's less cost! Are you kidding me that you think less hours with same output is increased cost?
    It is to the business.
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Um, that increase in the minimum wage came during the Bush administration. So you think Bush is a progressive?
    The last time it changed was 2009. The 2007 law did it incrementally.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    It is to the business.
    You're dismissing the factor of time. That's a variable. More productivity and output in less time is money.

    Not to mention, you're not even getting into happier employees = less turnover.
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But you're saying that based on no evidence at all. The real minimum wage has been essentially flat for 60 years. But you're right - if the minimum wage is raised, then stays flat for a decade and over time inflation erases all the gains, then people living on what is now 2/3 of the purchasing power of a decade ago will probably complain that it's hard to make ends meet.

    Bottom line is a raise improves living standards. Works for people on minimum wage same as it does for you.
    To your point, that is one of the problems with the minimum wage debate. If we were really keeping up with inflation then minimum wage today would be somewhere in the $18 to $22 range (perhaps higher.) But since we do not, we have a real issue with what increases economically mean in the manner we go about them. Usually causing direct impact to labor supply & demand conditions. We cover this all the time with potential job losses when you increase minimum wage rates with no real correlation to existing economic conditions. Another way if saying the increases we go with are for political benefit, not economic sense.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    It is to the business.
    Here's a look at productivity vs hours:

    Crunch Mode: programming to the extreme - The Relationship Between Hours Worked and Productivity
    60 x P60 < 40 x P40,
    where P60 is the average productivity of employees working 60 hour weeks, and P40 is the average productivity of employees working 40 hour weeks. This effectively means that productivity during 60 hour weeks would be less than two-thirds that of what it was when 40 hour weeks were worked.
    I don't actually have a problem with the 40-hour workweek, but rather am pointing out what appears to be a massive oversight currently in industry.

    Not to mention, the 40-hour workweek is a joke in this country. If you only work 40 hours, you're considered lazy - which of course is idiotic.
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    No, that's less cost! Are you kidding me that you think less hours with same output is increased cost?
    Actually, you're both wrong

    Cost is measured by how much you spend on it. In both cases, the labor expenses were $50K

    Ergo, costs are the same.
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, you're both wrong

    Cost is measured by how much you spend on it. In both cases, the labor expenses were $50K

    Ergo, costs are the same.
    Agreed, but there are other types of costs - like opportunity cost. And in this opportunity cost is reduced because you've just freed up 10 hours of time that you can produce more.
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Agreed, but there are other types of costs - like opportunity cost. And in this opportunity cost is reduced because you've just freed up 10 hours of time that you can produce more.
    That may be true or may not be true but the fact remains that, as stated, costs remained the same.

    Besides, "opportunity costs" is a figure of speech and not an actual deductible expense.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    If you think about it, it would actually create jobs. There is really no question about that.
    Not really

    at below current min wages the people earning that money have very little to spend. If the wages were lowered even more they would have only money to buy food, and perhaps rent a room and share it with other people. They would not have money to spend on other items, they don't spend, they don't create demand for goods and services which would be filled by new jobs
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