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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Isn't opinion what you've been offering in rebuttal?
    No. The times of greatest largess in this country were also the times of the highest minimum wage. Before you accuse me of the causation = correlation fallacy, I am AWARE that there were other factors involved...but WITHOUT the higher minimum wages during those time periods, the largess would NOT have been distributed the same, resulting in LESS for all, even the wealthy. Now, for the PROOF of that? Well, I have none, since it DIDN'T happen. Can't prove something that didn't happen. But it IS logical. The reverse argument is not. Simple enough.


    How about you? Are YOU an employer? Would YOU employ MORE people simply because they cost less to do so? Maybe for a SMALL business, sure. It would mean less work for the owner, which MIGHT be worth it to said owner if the difference in cost were great enough....but ultimately, probably not. Even at 4 bucks per hour, at 30 hours per week, that employee still costs more than the typical small business owner is willing to give up just so he/she doesn't have to work as hard.

    No, you only hire more people to fill more demand, otherwise, no MATTER the cost of employees wages, you take a hit to your bottom line.


    Is that logical, or not?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    No. The times of greatest largess in this country were also the times of the highest minimum wage. Before you accuse me of the causation = correlation fallacy, I am AWARE that there were other factors involved...but WITHOUT the higher minimum wages during those time periods, the largess would NOT have been distributed the same, resulting in LESS for all, even the wealthy. Now, for the PROOF of that? Well, I have none, since it DIDN'T happen. Can't prove something that didn't happen. But it IS logical. The reverse argument is not. Simple enough.


    How about you? Are YOU an employer? Would YOU employ MORE people simply because they cost less to do so? Maybe for a SMALL business, sure. It would mean less work for the owner, which MIGHT be worth it to said owner if the difference in cost were great enough....but ultimately, probably not. Even at 4 bucks per hour, at 30 hours per week, that employee still costs more than the typical small business owner is willing to give up just so he/she doesn't have to work as hard.

    No, you only hire more people to fill more demand, otherwise, no MATTER the cost of employees wages, you take a hit to your bottom line.


    Is that logical, or not?
    Interesting opinion. Do YOU base it on EXPERINCE, or just LOGIC based on an IDEOLOGICAL perception?

    While I can claim anything and you will either accept it, or not, I can claim that YES, I am an EMPLOYER. I have employed HUNDREDS of people at a time. Compensation is a complex calculation based on cost of finished goods and market considerations. The more complex the product/service being provided, the more investment required to maintain viability in the market place.

    It seems YOU have this perception that owners/bosses are just lazy greedy people looking to pay the least while sitting on their butts. Clearly, this admission, if I have it right, diminishes any real consideration of what in the end is just YOUR OPINION.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Increases or decreases to the minimum wage have little, if not no, actual affect on automation. Even at 1 dollar per hour, a self check out lane costs less over a fixed period of time, than a manned check out. Moving away from brick and mortar was and is going to happen, no matter what we do to the minimum wage. Off shoring to get cheap Chinese labor is the ONLY one which minimum wage has an affect, and the minimum wage ultimately has less affect that our OTHER regs, like environmental, OSHA, etc.


    All of the things you have listed ARE, or WILL happen, even if we abolish the minimum wage.

    At some point, we have to accept this, and move past this argument that is taking place in this thread. At some point, the reality of dramatically reduced employment HAS to hit home, and we HAVE to accept that there are measures that MUST be taken to insure against complete collapse. Minimum wage is ONE of those measures. Combined with a reduced work week, it will allow this country to keep people EARNING their living.

    Which is what this is all about, yes?
    Paying people more to work less is not the answer.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    ocean515;1064088706]Interesting opinion. Do YOU base it on EXPERINCE, or just LOGIC based on an IDEOLOGICAL perception?
    Yes, I am an employer, though not self employed. I work for a company that employs just under 100,000 people, and I directly have control over the employment of 4 clubs, which employ over 100 people each. I am not the sole voice on their payroll, but I have a lot of say. Which is why my logic is based the way it is...EXPERIENCE.
    While I can claim anything and you will either accept it, or not, I can claim that YES, I am an EMPLOYER. I have employed HUNDREDS of people at a time. Compensation is a complex calculation based on cost of finished goods and market considerations. The more complex the product/service being provided, the more investment required to maintain viability in the market place.
    I believe your claim. To not do so does not progress the discussion. And yes, I am aware that compensation is a complex calculation...but we are talking about the decision to hire more, or not hire more. We are, for the purpose of this argument, assuming that compensation is a fixed variable, via the minimum wage, whatever it may be set at.

    It seems YOU have this perception that owners/bosses are just lazy greedy people looking to pay the least while sitting on their butts. Clearly, this admission, if I have it right, diminishes any real consideration of what in the end is just YOUR OPINION.
    On the contrary, I believe that SOME bosses are lazy, but NOT for small businesses, or the self employed. They, in my opinion, or the THE hardest working, over the most hours, in this country, with NO EXCEPTIONS. Self employment is the hardest thing you can do, IMO. I have been self employed, and I know several people who are self employed. Again, that's why I make the conclusions that I do. Read over the the post that you responded to...it was not diatribe against the self employed, or the small business owner, or even over bosses in general. In fact, quite the opposite. I believe that these people are hard working, which is why they WON'T hire more people just because the cost to do so is reduced, by whatever margin. They would prefer to just continue as they are, and do the work themselves, in order to not lose that bit of bottom line/pay. The only reason they would hire more is to fulfill more demand, IE, their business has increased, which has caused there to be more work than they can physically do now, which means they hire someone else to help.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Paying people more to work less is not the answer.
    Then what, in the context of this new argument, is?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Paying people more to work less is not the answer.
    Why not? If you can get more productivity out of people by working them less - isn't that what life is all about? I'd rather pay someone $50,000 to do 50 units of work in 30 hours than pay someone $50,000 to do 50 units in 40 hours.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Why not? If you can get more productivity out of people by working them less - isn't that what life is all about? I'd rather pay someone $50,000 to do 50 units of work in 30 hours than pay someone $50,000 to do 50 units in 40 hours.
    Congratulations!

    You just increased your labor cost by 25%.

    Not an intelligent way to run any business.
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Maybe we should do away with minimum wage I'm sure that will create jobs.
    It would not be pretty, but it very well might create jobs. What we would see is wage rate determination by the cross of Labor Supply and Demand.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Seems common sense to me, but i'm sure we'll still have people arguing that the CBO and this study are just wrong and it's all "win" for MW workers.

    Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession
    In other news, if we just brought back slavery, child labor, and sweatshops, we could make those jobs recession proof.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Congratulations!

    You just increased your labor cost by 25%.

    Not an intelligent way to run any business.
    Nor is ensuring your would be customers are too poor to afford your stuff, due to employing robots.


    Fact - robots don't buy stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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