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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    So.. According to you, their labor costs go up, they get busier, they hire more (at the now higher wage) and magically reduce prices.
    They're not going to reduce prices, that would reduce short term profits, something bonus riddled CEO's fear more than anything. Yes, increases to minimum wage increases the cost of living, but the cost of living increase is BEHIND the minimum wage increase.

    Why? Competition. It's one of those "free market" principles bandied about all the time by "conservatives".
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    It occurs to me that if employers can pass along the cost of higher wages, then there is no need for a loss of jobs.

    Alternatively, if they can decrease the number of workers, then there is no need for inflation to result from higher wages.

    I don't understand why some people will argue that a higher min wage would cause both, or why when you defeat their argument about one of those options, they jump over to the other.

    And what they totally ignore are all the other factors such as the cost savings to business due to an increase in economy of scale that ocures when demand increases. "Unintended consequences" are not always unintended, nor are they always bad.
    Because being a dishonest debater is better than being wrong, and because admitting wrong undermines the basis for their core political beliefs.


    But even Alan Greenspan was able to admit his economic ideas were wrong, and devastating to the american people.


    19 March: Alan Greenspan finally admits he was wrong | Daily Maverick
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Of course it is. I wasn't trying to write a long diatribe on the subject. However, basically and simply, no matter what we raise min wage to, in x number of years those making minimum wage will be back saying they can't afford to raise a family on that new dollar amount.
    The minimum wage ISN'T about helping minimum wage workers raise a family. I don't care about their ability to raise their family.
    Last edited by KevinKohler; 12-14-14 at 10:09 AM. Reason: typo
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  4. #54
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    For some, temporarily anyway. For others (a million according to this study) not so much.
    You are making a basis on a study that provides no actual proof to support it's claim. I'd look into that before putting all of your eggs into that basket. Just saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    The Minimum Wage and the Great Recession: Evidence of Effects on the Employment and Income Trajectories of Low-Skilled Workers | Heartland Institute


    It's a link to a link. The entire study is linked on this site. What you'll gather after going through it is that their study is based on the premise of higher labor cost = lower employment. In other words, the entire study is completely flawed. What you'll also notice is that they provide not one tiny shred of evidence to support that premise.

    Why? Because it's completely illogical. Employers employ ONLY because they have too much work to get done for just themselves. At that point, it's either deny business, of hire. Period. Cost of hiring never even enters into the equation, but ultimately, it's the ONLY way to grow the business. Otherwise, there would be NOTHING but sole ownership, employee count of one businesses out there. It doesn't matter if the minimum wage is .01 cents per hour, or 20 dollars per hour, employees only hire the absolute minimum staff needed to get the work done. The only thing that changed in the recession is that businesses went OUT of business due to a lack of demand, not overpriced employees, which created a surplus of laborers looking for work. Which, of course, meant that employers could work their existing employees harder, because there WERE no better jobs for them to leave to.

    But hey, don't take my word for it, lol. Go find another "study".
    You make some good points but ignore the fact that employers can also alter their business model in order to use fewer employees or to use employees that require less skill. Direct sales via the internet and automation are two ways of accomplishing more but using less or lower skilled labor to do so. Moving one's production facility to a lower taxed/regulated area (state or country) is another way to reduce labor costs. More companies, like Amazon, will switch to the direct (internet) sales method since retail store space and cashiers are no longer required overhead to run a retail business; this allows a lower retail markup to yield a higher retail profit by using less real estate and less labor in the business model.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    i'm sure we'll still have people arguing that the CBO and this study are just wrong
    This article does not say anything about the CBO. Please quote the CBO saying that the MW increase in 2007 cost jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You make some good points but ignore the fact that employers can also alter their business model in order to use fewer employees or to use employees that require less skill. Direct sales via the internet and automation are two ways of accomplishing more but using less or lower skilled labor to do so. Moving one's production facility to a lower taxed/regulated area (state or country) is another way to reduce labor costs. More companies, like Amazon, will switch to the direct (internet) sales method since retail store space and cashiers are no longer required overhead to run a retail business; this allows a lower retail markup to yield a higher retail profit by using less real estate and less labor in the business model.

    Increases or decreases to the minimum wage have little, if not no, actual affect on automation. Even at 1 dollar per hour, a self check out lane costs less over a fixed period of time, than a manned check out. Moving away from brick and mortar was and is going to happen, no matter what we do to the minimum wage. Off shoring to get cheap Chinese labor is the ONLY one which minimum wage has an affect, and the minimum wage ultimately has less affect that our OTHER regs, like environmental, OSHA, etc.


    All of the things you have listed ARE, or WILL happen, even if we abolish the minimum wage.

    At some point, we have to accept this, and move past this argument that is taking place in this thread. At some point, the reality of dramatically reduced employment HAS to hit home, and we HAVE to accept that there are measures that MUST be taken to insure against complete collapse. Minimum wage is ONE of those measures. Combined with a reduced work week, it will allow this country to keep people EARNING their living.

    Which is what this is all about, yes?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    This article does not say anything about the CBO. Please quote the CBO saying that the MW increase in 2007 cost jobs.
    He hasn't even read this so called "study" yet, lol. He's basing his entire argument off of an OPINION piece ABOUT the study.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    He hasn't even read this so called "study" yet, lol. He's basing his entire argument off of an OPINION piece ABOUT the study.
    Isn't opinion what you've been offering in rebuttal?

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    He hasn't even read this so called "study" yet, lol. He's basing his entire argument off of an OPINION piece ABOUT the study.
    Even worse - he seems to be referring to a CBO study that doesn't even exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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