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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    No one said that this was the only cause of the job losses, just that is one of the causes. Try again, please, and this time could you put a LITTLE effort in??
    But how can anyone figure out which jobs or how many jobs were caused by this or that factor? It's kinda like claiming that the spending bill "created or saved" X amount of jobs (or didn't create or save jobs at all). We simply don't know.

    After other min wage increases, we didn't have job losses or a spike in inflation, so somehow I doubt that this study has a lot of validity to it. It's simply a guess based upon one particular theory (although there are contrary theories), with no control group, and no scientific bases behind it at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    That is because it is not true. George HW Bush had a degree in economics, as did Reagan and Ford. Clinton had studied economics as part of his PPE at Oxford but dropped out of there to go to Yale.
    I just "fact checked" that, and you appear to be correct as usual.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I just "fact checked" that, and you appear to be correct as usual.
    I googled it

    For some reason I was thinking Clinton had studied economics at the London School thereof but I was wrong too.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No J, based on his answer, what he reports, he doesn't run a national economy. He cannot expertly speak as he tries to do. He and you just keep trying to hide his failure to acknowledge the point made by me and others.

    As for abrasive, you're far too sensitive. As for arrogant, between us, that's kind of a pot to kettle comment on your part.
    So, you'll only accept information that runs counter to your own beliefs if it is given by someone whom controlled a national based economy? No one in the lay fields is able to debate with you? That seems rather convenient. It seems his experience is vastly superior to your own, yet you talk as though you know more than he would on the subject...It's not that I am ''sensitive'' as you frame it, I just recognize jerk behavior when I see it. See, I am smart enough to know when someone has more experience than I do, therefore, I may not agree with them, but would at least acknowledge that what they are saying is based on more than I might know...

    Your approach is purposely dismissive, and irritating to the point that people would just as soon leave you with a polite "if you say so" and move on....However, unfortunately that only leaves you believing that you know what you are talking about....When in reality, you don't.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    No one said that this was the only cause of the job losses, just that is one of the causes. Try again, please, and this time could you put a LITTLE effort in??
    Prove that the market crash was not the sole creator of job losses.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, you'll only accept information that runs counter to your own beliefs if it is given by someone whom controlled a national based economy? No one in the lay fields is able to debate with you? That seems rather convenient. It seems his experience is vastly superior to your own, yet you talk as though you know more than he would on the subject...It's not that I am ''sensitive'' as you frame it, I just recognize jerk behavior when I see it. See, I am smart enough to know when someone has more experience than I do, therefore, I may not agree with them, but would at least acknowledge that what they are saying is based on more than I might know...

    Your approach is purposely dismissive, and irritating to the point that people would just as soon leave you with a polite "if you say so" and move on....However, unfortunately that only leaves you believing that you know what you are talking about....When in reality, you don't.
    If it is nothing more than personal information, yes. That is the standard. If it is your word personally, based on your experience, offered as evidence, yes you must have experience with what we are talking about. I hold the same standard for myself.

    Now, if anyone has a national study, so support that is garnered by looking at the national economy, I'd be more than willing to view it.

    That is not being dismissive. And it is what you should expect as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If it is nothing more than personal information, yes. That is the standard. If it is your word personally, based on your experience, offered as evidence, yes you must have experience with what we are talking about. I hold the same standard for myself.

    Now, if anyone has a national study, so support that is garnered by looking at the national economy, I'd be more than willing to view it.

    That is not being dismissive. And it is what you should expect as well.

    You've been offered as much in the past, but beyond that if you are demanding that others provide legitimate studies to support their arguments, where are yours? Simply sitting back and dismissing the experience of running a nationally based business that has international reach, when your experience is locally based at best, and coming off like he doesn't know what he is speaking of, is jaw droppingly ignorant. So, using your standard, and since you haven't provided any studies to back up your own assertions, have you run a national economy? I know the answer, and it is no. So, I guess by your own standard, you are dismissed as well.
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You've been offered as much in the past, but beyond that if you are demanding that others provide legitimate studies to support their arguments, where are yours? Simply sitting back and dismissing the experience of running a nationally based business that has international reach, when your experience is locally based at best, and coming off like he doesn't know what he is speaking of, is jaw droppingly ignorant. So, using your standard, and since you haven't provided any studies to back up your own assertions, have you run a national economy? I know the answer, and it is no. So, I guess by your own standard, you are dismissed as well.
    Some have offered some things (not what you're jumping in on however) and it is often countered (that's how this is suppose to work). And no, his experience, like mind, is not enough. Taking his word at face value, which is problematic by itself for any of us, still doesn't show he has the appropriate experience to answer a national economic question. That you don't see that is jaw droppingly ignorant (see I can do that as well).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Prove that the market crash was not the sole creator of job losses.
    "Prove" that it was and I'll address your assertions.

    Something as complex as the biggest economy on the planet is a little difficult to narrow down to single causes for ANYTHING.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    There was more than one cause, but the effect of the down turn was devastating, and it to had multiple cause:

    With half a decade’s hindsight, it is clear the crisis had multiple causes. The most obvious is the financiers themselves—especially the irrationally exuberant Anglo-Saxon sort, who claimed to have found a way to banish risk when in fact they had simply lost track of it. Central bankers and other regulators also bear blame, for it was they who tolerated this folly. The macroeconomic backdrop was important, too. The “Great Moderation”—years of low inflation and stable growth—fostered complacency and risk-taking. A “savings glut” in Asia pushed down global interest rates. Some research also implicates European banks, which borrowed greedily in American money markets before the crisis and used the funds to buy dodgy securities. All these factors came together to foster a surge of debt in what seemed to have become a less risky world.

    The origins of the financial crisis: Crash course | The Economist

    They do a good job of listing some reason here:

    The Cause of High Unemployment: Still Due to Dwindling Job Creation

    But over state some and reach the wrong conclusions. No matter what government does, no matter how much they deregulate or cut taxes or appease business, business will not take risks where there is no demand. People with money to spend will help more than anything else. As long as we pay low wages, limiting the buying power of working people, business will remain stagnant. And you can't shrink government without both losing jobs and taking money out of the economy. And no, I'm not arguing that we need to grow government. I'm just trying to make the problem clearer. There is no easy answer.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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