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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

  1. #501
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Not when all competitors have the same cost increases
    Sure. When you find that mythical world where all businesses are exactly the same, let us know

    The only way that we would lose competitiveness is against foreign labor, but that foreign labor doesn't compete for min wage jobs in the US. Someone in China can't flip burgers in the US.
    Nope. But Illegal aliens who can get paid under the table are available .

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sure. When you find that mythical world where all businesses are exactly the same, let us know
    I think it's safe to assume that Burger King and McDonald's both pay their employees in the same range.

    Nope. But Illegal aliens who can get paid under the table are available .
    Then maybe we should do something about the illegal alien issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I think it's safe to assume that Burger King and McDonald's both pay their employees in the same range.
    ....and are not the only businesses that compete with each other. And are not the same. As I think we've hammered out before, MW increases is really a way to force low-income labor to subsidize higher-income labor.

    Then maybe we should do something about the illegal alien issue.
    Concur. Then we're going to have the problem that many Americans have become used to government sustenance and leisure as a replacement for difficult or low-social-status work.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Lawrence F. Katz and Alan B. Krueger, “The Effect of the Minimum Wage on the Fast Food Industry,” Industrial Relations Section, Princeton University, February 1992.

    David Card, “Using Regional Variation in Wages to Measure the Effects of the Federal Minimum Wage,” Industrial and Labor Relations Review, October 1992.

    David Card and Alan Krueger, Myth and Measurement: The New Economics of the Minimum Wage (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1995).

    David Card and Alan B. Krueger, “Minimum Wages and Employment: A Case Study of the Fast-Food Industry in New Jersey and Pennsylvania: Reply,” American Economic Review, December 2000 (in this reply, Card and Krueger update earlier findings and refute critics).

    Jared Bernstein and John Schmitt, Economic Policy Institute, Making Work Pay: The Impact of the 1996-97 Minimum Wage Increase, 1998.

    Jerold Waltman, Allan McBride and Nicole Camhout, “Minimum Wage Increases and the Business Failure Rate,” Journal of Economic Issues, March 1998.

    A Report by the National Economic Council, The Minimum Wage: Increasing the Reward for Work, March 2000.

    Holly Sklar, Laryssa Mykyta and Susan Wefald, Raise The Floor: Wages and Policies That Work For All Of Us (Boston: South End Press, 2001/2002), Ch. 4 and pp. 102-08.

    Marilyn P. Watkins, Economic Opportunity Institute, “Still Working Well: Washington’s Minimum Wage and the Beginnings of Economic Recovery,” January 21, 2004.

    Amy Chasanov, Economic Policy Institute, No Longer Getting By: An Increase in the Minimum Wage is Long Overdue, May 2004.

    Fiscal Policy Institute, States with Minimum Wages above the Federal Level Have Had Faster Small Business and Retail Job Growth, March 2006 (update of 2004 report).

    John Burton and Amy Hanauer, Center for American Progress and Policy Matters Ohio, Good for Business: Small Business Growth and State Minimum Wages, May 2006.

    Paul K. Sonn, Citywide Minimum Wage Laws: A New Policy Tool for Local Governments, (originally published by Brennan Center for Justice) National Employment Law Project, May 2006, includes a good summary of impact research.

    Liana Fox, Economic Policy Institute, Minimum Wage Trends: Understanding past and contemporary research, November 8, 2006.

    Paul Wolfson, Economic Policy Institute, State Minimum Wages: A Policy That Works, November 27, 2006.

    Arindrajit Dube, Suresh Naidu and Michael Reich, “The Economic Effects of a Citywide Minimum Wage,” Industrial & Labor Relations Review, July 2007.

    Jerold L. Waltman, Minimum Wage Policy in Great Britain and the United States (New York: Algora, 2008), pp. 17-19, 132-136, 151-162, 178-180.

    Sylvia Allegretto, Arindrajit Dube and Michael Reich, Do Minimum Wages Really Reduce Teen Employment?, Institute for Research on Labor and Employment, Univ. of CA, Berkeley, June 28, 2008.

    Michael F. Thompson, Indiana Business Research Center, “Minimum Wage Impacts on Employment: A Look at Indiana, Illinois and Surrounding Midwestern States,” Indiana Business Review, Fall 2008.

    Hristos Doucouliagos and T. D. Stanley, "Publication Selection Bias in Minimum-Wage Research? A Meta-Regression Analysis," British Journal of Industrial Relations, vol. 47, no. 2, 2009.

    Sylvia Allegretto, Arindrajit Dube and Michael Reich, Spacial Heterogeneity and Minimum Wages: Employment Estimates for Teens Using Cross-State Commuting Zones, Institute for Research on Labor and Employment, Univ. of CA, Berkeley, June 25, 2009.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #506
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Lawrence F. Katz and Alan B. Krueger, “The Effect of the Minimum Wage on the Fast Food Industry,” Industrial Relations Section, Princeton University, February 1992.

    David Card, “Using Regional Variation in Wages to Measure the Effects of the Federal Minimum Wage,” Industrial and Labor Relations Review, October 1992.

    David Card and Alan Krueger, Myth and Measurement: The New Economics of the Minimum Wage (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1995).

    David Card and Alan B. Krueger, “Minimum Wages and Employment: A Case Study of the Fast-Food Industry in New Jersey and Pennsylvania: Reply,” American Economic Review, December 2000 (in this reply, Card and Krueger update earlier findings and refute critics).

    Jared Bernstein and John Schmitt, Economic Policy Institute, Making Work Pay: The Impact of the 1996-97 Minimum Wage Increase, 1998.

    Jerold Waltman, Allan McBride and Nicole Camhout, “Minimum Wage Increases and the Business Failure Rate,” Journal of Economic Issues, March 1998.

    A Report by the National Economic Council, The Minimum Wage: Increasing the Reward for Work, March 2000.

    Holly Sklar, Laryssa Mykyta and Susan Wefald, Raise The Floor: Wages and Policies That Work For All Of Us (Boston: South End Press, 2001/2002), Ch. 4 and pp. 102-08.

    Marilyn P. Watkins, Economic Opportunity Institute, “Still Working Well: Washington’s Minimum Wage and the Beginnings of Economic Recovery,” January 21, 2004.

    Amy Chasanov, Economic Policy Institute, No Longer Getting By: An Increase in the Minimum Wage is Long Overdue, May 2004.

    Fiscal Policy Institute, States with Minimum Wages above the Federal Level Have Had Faster Small Business and Retail Job Growth, March 2006 (update of 2004 report).

    John Burton and Amy Hanauer, Center for American Progress and Policy Matters Ohio, Good for Business: Small Business Growth and State Minimum Wages, May 2006.

    Paul K. Sonn, Citywide Minimum Wage Laws: A New Policy Tool for Local Governments, (originally published by Brennan Center for Justice) National Employment Law Project, May 2006, includes a good summary of impact research.

    Liana Fox, Economic Policy Institute, Minimum Wage Trends: Understanding past and contemporary research, November 8, 2006.

    Paul Wolfson, Economic Policy Institute, State Minimum Wages: A Policy That Works, November 27, 2006.

    Arindrajit Dube, Suresh Naidu and Michael Reich, “The Economic Effects of a Citywide Minimum Wage,” Industrial & Labor Relations Review, July 2007.

    Jerold L. Waltman, Minimum Wage Policy in Great Britain and the United States (New York: Algora, 2008), pp. 17-19, 132-136, 151-162, 178-180.

    Sylvia Allegretto, Arindrajit Dube and Michael Reich, Do Minimum Wages Really Reduce Teen Employment?, Institute for Research on Labor and Employment, Univ. of CA, Berkeley, June 28, 2008.

    Michael F. Thompson, Indiana Business Research Center, “Minimum Wage Impacts on Employment: A Look at Indiana, Illinois and Surrounding Midwestern States,” Indiana Business Review, Fall 2008.

    Hristos Doucouliagos and T. D. Stanley, "Publication Selection Bias in Minimum-Wage Research? A Meta-Regression Analysis," British Journal of Industrial Relations, vol. 47, no. 2, 2009.

    Sylvia Allegretto, Arindrajit Dube and Michael Reich, Spacial Heterogeneity and Minimum Wages: Employment Estimates for Teens Using Cross-State Commuting Zones, Institute for Research on Labor and Employment, Univ. of CA, Berkeley, June 25, 2009.
    Couldn't help but notice none of this is linked or sourced - you copy this list from somewhere?

    I also can't help but notice a high prevalence of advocacy organizations among those producing the research you are citing. Shall I cite CATO or Heritage in response?

    Look at the bolded (chosen at random) for example:

    Amy Chasanov, Economic Policy Institute, No Longer Getting By: An Increase in the Minimum Wage is Long Overdue, May 2004.

    No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.... The federal minimum wage, originally passed as part of the Fair Labor Standards Act, was established to ensure that low-income workers earn sufficient wages. The purpose of the minimum wage then, as now, was to lift the earnings of low-wage workers by preventing market forces from driving down the wages of the least-educated and the least-skilled workers in the labor force.

    Not only is this historically illiterate (the MW was originally conceived as a means of pricing blacks and asians out of competition), this is just a re-hash of the "you can't raise a family of four on the minimum wage" argument, not a study that "100% concluded that increasing min wage did not cause unemployment". Did you check out this list of sources before you posted it?
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-23-14 at 02:25 PM.

  7. #507
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    I was unaware you were concerned with people who choose not to prepare themselves the the modern economy.
    Why wouldn't that be a concern? People have to start somewhere...

    It is highly unlikely people enter the labor force to earn the lowest amount possible.
    They don't intend to enter the labour force for low wage work, but that is the end result. People without skills and experience earn lower paying jobs until they build up that experience.

    The "you are getting paid with training" model is ripe with exploitation.
    Its also one of the few ways to get your foot in the door with experience. The alternative is spending years in school for a degree.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Only the deluded or the hopelessly partisan think that MW #'s are based on "what sounds good"
    Every time the topic arises the minimum wage is often referenced to what other nations have as their minimum wage. I don't see how that isn't an appeal to 'what sounds good.'

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    Every time the topic arises the minimum wage is often referenced to what other nations have as their minimum wage. I don't see how that isn't an appeal to 'what sounds good.'
    Comparative analysis is a perfectly logical and rational way of evaluating anything. People who refused to make comparisons likely do so because they are afraid that what they may find doesn't match their ideology.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  10. #510
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Implementing a MW didn't eliminate child labor either.

    The National Labor Standards Act was passed in order to address the economic problems of the time which was not "child labor"
    I'm sure that is probably what you learned in secondary school, but there were other programs that were geared towards addressing economic problems at the time. FLSA was drafted precisely to handle the issues of wages and the effect it had on child labour in the marketplace. Adults wanted jobs to go to adult labourers. Children in the marketplace got in the way of that.

    And there are plenty of books written about how the lunar landing was a hoax too.
    I'm talking about peer reviewed scholarly text dating back from the 1930s, which are considered more empirical accounts than your 'lunar landings.' This information is also referenced and cited on the history network.

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