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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    They make more causing higher prices to cover the increased labor costs. The poor are in the same (relative) spot they were in (after a little time has passed) ... and the middle class, whose dollars will now purchase less, are in a worse spot.
    History says otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Agreed. When I said they would be in relatively the same potion.. that's long term. They'll still be poor, and complaining in the not too distant future about how their (now) $15 an hour no-skilled min wage job doesn't allow them to take care of a family.
    Agreed. But short term, they'll buy the latest smart phone.


    We are a consumer economy. More consumption = better economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    They make more causing higher prices to cover the increased labor costs. The poor are in the same (relative) spot they were in (after a little time has passed) ... and the middle class, whose dollars will now purchase less, are in a worse spot.
    That's too simplified a look at the issue.

    If labor costs are, say, 20% of the cost of an item, and labor costs increase 30%, the cost goes up 6% and we can assume prices follow roughly the same. So the workforce gets a raise of 30%, and prices go up 6%. That's not a bad deal, and it assumes that businesses can pass along all increases in costs dollar for dollar to their customers, which is doubtful. Likely there is some shifting of costs (higher prices), with profits taking some hit.

    And in the meantime, that employee spends an extra (net of price increases) 24% on other goods, etc.......

    Not saying there isn't an employment effect when the minimum wage goes up (not sure either way), but we can't assume the poor are left no better off with raises. Those with a job are very, very likely to see significant increases in their standard of living.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's too simplified a look at the issue.

    If labor costs are, say, 20% of the cost of an item, and labor costs increase 30%, the cost goes up 6% and we can assume prices follow roughly the same. So the workforce gets a raise of 30%, and prices go up 6%. That's not a bad deal, and it assumes that businesses can pass along all increases in costs dollar for dollar to their customers, which is doubtful. Likely there is some shifting of costs (higher prices), with profits taking some hit.

    And in the meantime, that employee spends an extra (net of price increases) 24% on other goods, etc.......

    Not saying there isn't an employment effect when the minimum wage goes up (not sure either way), but we can't assume the poor are left no better off with raises. Those with a job are very, very likely to see significant increases in their standard of living.
    It occurs to me that if employers can pass along the cost of higher wages, then there is no need for a loss of jobs.

    Alternatively, if they can decrease the number of workers, then there is no need for inflation to result from higher wages.

    I don't understand why some people will argue that a higher min wage would cause both, or why when you defeat their argument about one of those options, they jump over to the other.

    And what they totally ignore are all the other factors such as the cost savings to business due to an increase in economy of scale that ocures when demand increases. "Unintended consequences" are not always unintended, nor are they always bad.
    Last edited by imagep; 12-13-14 at 08:00 PM.
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    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    So I actually combed through the entire report (being the meticulous guy that I am), and all I saw was one GIANT correlation equals causation fallacy.

    At no point did I find a SINGLE employer explain how an increase in the minimum wage meant they decreased their work force.
    From the little I can read (only the synopsis at NBER) it sounds well reasoned and encompassing enough to reach some valid conclusions.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's too simplified a look at the issue.
    Of course it is. I wasn't trying to write a long diatribe on the subject. However, basically and simply, no matter what we raise min wage to, in x number of years those making minimum wage will be back saying they can't afford to raise a family on that new dollar amount.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Of course it is. I wasn't trying to write a long diatribe on the subject. However, basically and simply, no matter what we raise min wage to, in x number of years those making minimum wage will be back saying they can't afford to raise a family on that new dollar amount.
    And that would be a good thing, because it would indicate that the median standard of living has increased.

    There is nothing bad about an increasing standard of living.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    We should just give them more so they can raise families while flipping burgers, is something only a child would suggest.. You know, when they still believe money grows on trees.
    Their labor, by definition, has surplus value. The money exists, you just don't want it distributed the same way I do.

    Uh oh, I used the scary "D" word. Before you go off on a tangent about socialism, just stop right there. This isn't about socialism.
    Last edited by Deuce; 12-13-14 at 09:20 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    And that would be a good thing, because it would indicate that the median standard of living has increased.
    For some, temporarily anyway. For others (a million according to this study) not so much.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    From the little I can read (only the synopsis at NBER) it sounds well reasoned and encompassing enough to reach some valid conclusions.
    The Minimum Wage and the Great Recession: Evidence of Effects on the Employment and Income Trajectories of Low-Skilled Workers | Heartland Institute


    It's a link to a link. The entire study is linked on this site. What you'll gather after going through it is that their study is based on the premise of higher labor cost = lower employment. In other words, the entire study is completely flawed. What you'll also notice is that they provide not one tiny shred of evidence to support that premise.

    Why? Because it's completely illogical. Employers employ ONLY because they have too much work to get done for just themselves. At that point, it's either deny business, of hire. Period. Cost of hiring never even enters into the equation, because ultimately, it's the ONLY way to grow the business. Otherwise, there would be NOTHING but sole ownership, employee count of one businesses out there. It doesn't matter if the minimum wage is .01 cents per hour, or 20 dollars per hour, employers only hire the absolute minimum staff needed to get the work done. The only thing that changed in the recession is that businesses went OUT of business due to a lack of demand, not overpriced employees, which created a surplus of laborers looking for work. Which, of course, meant that employers could work their existing employees harder, because there WERE no better jobs for them to leave to.

    But hey, don't take my word for it, lol. Go find another "study".

    Food for thought...


    Since it's inception, the minimum wage has been hated and reviled by people like you. And predicted to cause disaster after disaster. Now, it's been around a for a little while. And so far, the only economic disasters that have happened have NOT been the result of minimum wages.
    Last edited by KevinKohler; 12-14-14 at 10:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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