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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Most people already purchase all the crap they can afford. We buy 'til we aint got no more money. Just coming up with more crap, can't induce more buying, when the limiting factor isn't the crap that is available, it's the money that is available.

    Seriously, can YOU not find ample crap to buy? Is your local Walmart and Best Buy empty? Is the car dealer sold out of cars? Are all the cruises sold out? Is your barber shop out of haircuts? McDonalds can't make any more Bigmacs?
    Seriously, if a company can't figure out how to address changes in economic conditions they will just become another Desoto or Chrysler. There is always opportunity for growth and expansion under any market conditions.

    I understand the "give people more money and all will be well" meme is firmly entrenched, so I'll leave it at that.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the states that raised their minimum wage the highest just happened to be the states that saw the worse employment opportunity for those of lower skill. I'm sure those two situations really have nothing to do with each other and employers don't find other ways to handle an effective wage increase of 30%.
    Exactly! There can only be one cause per effect. Duh! :p

    The company I work for sends 80-90% of manufacturing to China. Look at quotes from the U.S., then look at quotes from China or other Asian country. They aren't even in the same ballpark when I comes to overhead and labor costs. Why pay someone more here in the states when you can just offshore the work for 30% less costs? You should only make what you are worth, PERIOD. If the market says the job you perform is only worth $5.00 an hour, you should get paid that. Unfortunately the FED thinks we need to maintain 2% inflation (which is really more than that when including costs not counted toward the inflation rate), so costs slowly rise every year requiring more pay. We are seeing the point of diminishing returns as a result. Our economy is F'ed. Goodbye reserve currency status. :wave:
    Last edited by JRSaindo; 12-19-14 at 08:33 AM.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Seriously, if a company can't figure out how to address changes in economic conditions they will just become another Desoto or Chrysler. There is always opportunity for growth and expansion under any market conditions.

    I understand the "give people more money and all will be well" meme is firmly entrenched, so I'll leave it at that.
    An individual company growing doesn't expand our macro-economy when its at the loss of sales of another company.

    You don't understand the difference between micro and macro economics.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSaindo View Post
    Exactly! There can only be one cause per effect. Duh! :p

    The company I work for sends 80-90% of manufacturing to China. Look at quotes from the U.S., then look at quotes from China or other Asian country. They aren't even in the same ballpark when I comes to overhead and labor costs. Why pay someone more here in the states when you can just offshore the work for 30% less costs? You should only make what you are worth, PERIOD. If the market says the job you perform is only worth $5.00 an hour, you should get paid that. Unfortunately the FED thinks we need to maintain 2% inflation (which is really more than that when including costs not counted toward the inflation rate), so costs slowly rise every year requiring more pay. We are seeing the point of diminishing returns as a result. Our economy is F'ed. Goodbye reserve currency status. :wave:
    Not a bit of that is correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Then you're selling the wrong mix of crap. Production will ALWAYS exceed demand. A smart owner will find ways to DEAL WITH IT. I've managed to do that for over 30 years.
    Production rarely exceeds demand. Also production us always moving in the direction of equalibrium with demand.

    So you think that the barber cuts more hair than he has customers?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    An individual company growing doesn't expand our macro-economy when its at the loss of sales of another company.

    You don't understand the difference between micro and macro economics.
    LOL.

    Clearly, you don't understand business.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Production rarely exceeds demand. Also production us always moving in the direction of equalibrium with demand.

    So you think that the barber cuts more hair than he has customers?
    I left out a word in my haste. I should have written production always has the ability to exceed demand.

    A business waiting for more people to show up will inevitably fail. A business waiting on people to have more money to spend will inevitably fail. That is about as basic as it can be.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    LOL.

    Clearly, you don't understand business.
    Well, one of us clearly doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I left out a word in my haste. I should have written production always has the ability to exceed demand.

    A business waiting for more people to show up will inevitably fail. A business waiting on people to have more money to spend will inevitably fail. That is about as basic as it can be.
    That is indeed the unfortunate reality.

    I totally get that you believe that the failure and success of individual businesses depends on their own merit. And that's true. But that's microeconomics, not macroeconomics.

    An individual company can do quite well, while our macro-economy is failing. When aggregate sales aren't growing, it doesn't particularly matter how well one business does, it could get 100% of the market share, and it still wouldn't effect unemployment, or produce more more for our macro-economy than was already being produced.

    Apple could acquire 100% of the market for every product, expanding into literally all markets (retail, food, clothing, housing, everything), but if the market doesn't expand, Apples success hasn't improved our economy, it's only improved Apples economy.

    You can't solve macroeconomic problems with microeconomic solutions. That's why at the college level, these are taught as different subjects.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    That is indeed the unfortunate reality.

    I totally get that you believe that the failure and success of individual businesses depends on their own merit. And that's true. But that's microeconomics, not macroeconomics.

    An individual company can do quite well, while our macro-economy is failing. When aggregate sales aren't growing, it doesn't particularly matter how well one business does, it could get 100% of the market share, and it still wouldn't effect unemployment, or produce more more for our macro-economy than was already being produced.

    Apple could acquire 100% of the market for every product, expanding into literally all markets (retail, food, clothing, housing, everything), but if the market doesn't expand, Apples success hasn't improved our economy, it's only improved Apples economy.

    You can't solve macroeconomic problems with microeconomic solutions. That's why at the college level, these are taught as different subjects.
    Throw out what you think you've been taught about micro and macro economics. All such knowledge does is provide reason not to do something, or reason to think you should. Better to trust wisdom and intuition. Those who can, do, those who can't, teach economics.

    Took me awhile to learn that.

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