Page 41 of 57 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 567

Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

  1. #401
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,136

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    They are different terms because they are different words. The concept is the same. Wage Floor, Wage Ceiling, etc. They are both Price controls.

    Price controls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    That is correct, but it's difficult to get MW advocates to openly admit it. The damages done by price controls are more widely known, but we want to think that because labor is the item that most of us sell, that it's somehow "special", and so all the rules of the Dismal Science don't apply to it. We lie to ourselves and the result is that we do damage to our poor, but inversely, feel good about it.

  2. #402
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,261

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Do you have the reading comprehension to understand that I was demonstrating the failure of that application of the term "monopsony"?
    You took the wiki approach because you had absolutely no idea (until it was pointed out) that dynamic monopsony allows you to drop the "single buyer" assumption to focus on exploitation of information asymmetries as a means of setting wages. This ensures elasticity of the labor supply schedule.

    I don't need to google - Monopsony is the flip side of Monopoly - except where Monopoly means there is effectively only one seller, Monopsony means there is effectively only one buyer.
    I see you are going to struggle with this one before running away. Oh well.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 12-17-14 at 09:23 AM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #403
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,136

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You took the wiki approach because you had absolutely no idea (until it was pointed out) that dynamic monopsony allows you to drop the "single buyer" assumption to focus on exploitation of information asymmetries as a means of setting wages. This ensures elasticity of the labor supply schedule.
    1. No, I've seen the monopsony foolishness in the MW debate before. It was and remains a ridiculous series of assumptions that all MW employees are identical, or that there is not a preference among firms for quality workers, or competition between firms that is partly won by the quality of their workforce. How does an economist get out of a hole? "Assume a ladder".

    2. Claims that information asymmetry dominates to the point of creating effective monopsony is a joke in the age of glassdoor.com. I interviewed for five separate positions this year, and each time I went in I had solid information on what the competition was paying, what the contract was paying, and what my years of experience and education were bringing on the market in my job field. There is a reason why wages rise in relative labor shortages. Wal-Mart isn't paying double-digit per hour starter rates in South Dakota because it wants to, it is doing so because it has to, because otherwise it will lose those workers.

    3. The declaration (that he made) that because there were more sellers of MW labor than purchasers there was a monopsony was and remains fallacious.

    I see you are going to struggle with this one before running away. Oh well.

  4. #404
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,261

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It was and remains a ridiculous assumption that either all MW employees are identical or that there is not competition among firms for quality workers.
    Pay attention: Traditional monopsony refers to a single buyer, ensuring an upward sloping labor supply curve. The dynamic approach allows us to drop the "single buyer" assumption, as incomplete information of job vacancies, which is a feature in the MW labor market, ensures the the same upward sloping labor supply curve.

    That is what monopsony infers; that the labor supply curve for the market is identical to that of the hiring firm.

    Claims that information asymmetry dominates to the point of creating effective monopsony is a joke in the age of glassdoor.com. I interviewed for five separate positions this year, and each time I went in I had solid information on what the competition was paying, what the contract was paying, and what my years of experience and education were bringing on the market in my job field.
    I was unaware you were interviewing for minimum wage jobs via glassdoor.com. My comment pertained to the LS/LW labor market, not your anecdotal journey through frictional unemployment.

    There is a reason why wages rise in relative labor shortages. Wal-Mart isn't paying double-digit per hour starter rates in South Dakota because it wants to, it is doing so because it has to, because otherwise it will lose those workers.
    That isn't monopsony. Here we see demand side factors influencing the price of low skilled jobs, ensuring that particular labor market (South Dakota frack towns) will exhibit an inelastic labor supply curve, thereby eliminating the wage making ability of the employer.

    The declaration (that he made) that because there were more sellers of MW labor than purchasers there was a monopsony was and remains fallacious.
    I cannot comment on behalf of your discussion with others. You clearly lack exposure to labor economics, which you continue to wear on your sleeve with each reply. Why not swallow your pride and try to learn something?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #405
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,136

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Pay attention: Traditional monopsony refers to a single buyer, ensuring an upward sloping labor supply curve. The dynamic approach allows us to drop the "single buyer" assumption, as incomplete information of job vacancies, which is a feature in the MW labor market, ensures the the same upward sloping labor supply curve.
    Yeah, got that, which is why my reply referenced and then pointed out the problems with assuming sharp wage-related information asymmetries, not to mention unique purchaser collusion.

    That is what monopsony infers; that the labor supply curve for the market is identical to that of the hiring firm.
    If a labor supply curve is upsloping, that means that you will need to offer higher wages in order to attract additional workers, if you want to attract additional workers. Demand for labor is elastic (which you have argued as I recall is actually a good thing in this regards, as it increases the relative incentive for investment in capital). I'd look with a jaundiced eye at the claim that that is our unique driver in this market, as opposed to considering opportunity costs such as leisure, or competition from off the books labor. There is absolutely slack in the Low Skill Labor force.

    I was unaware you were interviewing for minimum wage jobs via glassdoor.com. My comment pertained to the LS/LW labor market, not your anecdotal journey through frictional unemployment.
    Had I been interviewing for low-skill jobs I would have had the same resources available - I wouldn't have interviewed at Wal-Mart without knowing what K-Mart was paying, and visa versa. Had I been interviewing at Chik Fil A I would have compared them to Zaxby's.

    That isn't monopsony.
    That is correct, it is not.

    Here we see demand side factors influencing the price of low skilled jobs, ensuring that particular labor market (South Dakota frack towns) will exhibit an inelastic labor supply curve, thereby eliminating the wage making ability of the employer.
    Not eliminating. Reducing. This is a slope that never reaches either axis.

    However, on the reverse slide of the slope, you are confusing "competition among wage earners" for something that is solely a firm function. A larger supply of labor relative to demand is not a monopsony.

    I cannot comment on behalf of your discussion with others.
    That is interesting to see you say, given that this discussion started with you doing precisely that - the post you responded to was my response to Dittohead Not.

    You clearly lack exposure to labor economics, which you continue to wear on your sleeve with each reply. Why not swallow your pride and try to learn something?
    I have no problem learning - quite the opposite. It is in fact, a large part of why I come here. You merely confuse your comfort with the terminology with the status of automatically being the smartest person in any room you walk into (a common affliction), which is unfortunately why you overbite. It's not exactly like any of this stuff is rocket surgery.

  6. #406
    Educator WallStreetVixen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    New York City/London
    Last Seen
    06-04-15 @ 11:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    715

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Monopsony describes the low skill labor market.
    Business is not a one way street, so all it describes is that the low skill market have very poor leveraging skills.

    A monopsony, for the most part, is fictional.
    Last edited by WallStreetVixen; 12-17-14 at 02:15 PM.

  7. #407
    Educator WallStreetVixen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    New York City/London
    Last Seen
    06-04-15 @ 11:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    715

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    This isn't necessary a bad thing. It ensures up-skilling and increased capital investment. See the agricultural and fast food industries for example.
    Its bad for people who cannot achieve their first job, obtain the necessary skills for their career paths and people entering the labour force who simply just want to make a living.

    These are why we have internships, as the only legal way for having a fully capable person to work below the minimum wage is if they work for free.
    Last edited by WallStreetVixen; 12-17-14 at 02:27 PM.

  8. #408
    Educator WallStreetVixen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    New York City/London
    Last Seen
    06-04-15 @ 11:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    715

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, a minimum wage that is debated by economists, workers, pundits, and politicians in Congress is "arbitrary"

    As compared to the # the market comes up with (ie $0) which is not arbitrary
    The market comes up with the number based on supply and demand. These economist, workers, pundits and politicians come up with all different types of numbers, such as $10.10, $12.50 $15 and $20 based on what sounds good, and somehow you don't believe its arbitrary?

    And no, the MW can not be tied to the cost of living or inflation or anything else. The constitution forbids that.
    Whatever excuse you want to tell yourself.

  9. #409
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    The market comes up with the number based on supply and demand. These economist, workers, pundits and politicians come up with all different types of numbers, such as $10.10, $12.50 $15 and $20 based on what sounds good, and somehow you don't believe its arbitrary?



    Whatever excuse you want to tell yourself.
    They often give a rationale, so it wouldn't be completely arbitrary.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #410
    Educator WallStreetVixen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    New York City/London
    Last Seen
    06-04-15 @ 11:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    715

    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They often give a rationale, so it wouldn't be completely arbitrary.
    The rationale we've seen usually begs more questions, which is why these numbers seem arbitrary.

Page 41 of 57 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •