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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

  1. #301
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    That seems logical enough, but businesses don't act on the best behalf of the economy, they act in their own best interest.

    No one business is large enough to significantly effect our macro-economy. I'm all for libertarianism when and where it works, but in this case, it can't work. That's where government comes in as a legitimate factor, when individual business doesn't provide what we need, then government can create mandates or programs that will.
    It is to their interest to employ people. Sure, it is also to their interest to speed up production, but if everyone followed lego and completely replaced everyone with machines there would be no such thing as industry. The only reason lego is able to survive is because there is industries out there that didn't follow them into the suicide chamber.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Have you taken math? One variable MAY change others, but it does not mean they ALL change. And while change is not always bad, here its demonstrably harmful. The myths that conceal reality are exceedingly hard to overcome, the left may never learn that-but they will have to deal with the consequences.
    You should use quotes rather than color changes when doing the above...color changes prevent me from quoting you responses, making coherent debate increasingly difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    So why not raise minimum wage to 50 bucks an hour?
    I will answer your question with a question....why not REDUCE minimum wage to .01 cents per hour?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Seems common sense to me, but i'm sure we'll still have people arguing that the CBO and this study are just wrong and it's all "win" for MW workers.

    Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession
    The study is flawed since it does not take the effect of Great Recession into account. Next they will claim the recession was caused by raising the minimum wage. What a joke.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    So why not raise minimum wage to 50 bucks an hour?
    That's possible, but it's pushing the range that is possible without negative consequences.

    Basically what you are doing with that argument, is you are saying that if a little of something is good, a whole lot of it must be better. Things don't work that way.

    If I got home from work, and discovered that the temp in my house is 16 degrees, I would be foolish to turn up my thermostat to 120 degrees. There is a range for everything that is optimal.

    We don't know exactly what this optimal range for minimum wage is, but we can make a pretty good guess. At the low end, it could be anything over $0/hr, so let's call it a penny. At the high end, it's mathematically impossible for the minimum to exceed the mean average, and the mean average amount of value produced per work hour in the US is around $60. But if we set the high end of this range at $60/hr, then everyone would make the same wage, regardless of productivity - that's a mathematical fact. There are obviously reasons why some people should be paid more than others, I think we can all agree on that. Thus, the high end of the range which contains the economic optimizing min wage can't be $60/hr. Maybe half that amount, probably more like a quarter of that amount (in the neighborhood of $15-$30/hr).
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    You seem to be describing a VERY foolish employer. The good news is, most employers are not so silly as to do this...they understand that you staff for the labor, not for the cost of the staff.Again, this implies that our hypothetical incredibly foolish employers was not already getting a decent amount of productivity out of their employees, OR that said foolish employer is now going to give more HOURS to the existing employees... According to you OWN Misis backed economic beliefs, competition would prevent this from happening.



    Did you, smart guy?
    Wow, the amount of misinformation you have written is staggering. The tragic reality is it hurts those you claim to help.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You can lead a horse to water...
    Right....see, here's the thing. I don't buy into Mises. I mean, I used to. But then I got out into the world, and stuff, and experienced life, and realized that things that look good on paper don't always work, because people don't always act in their own best self interests, regardless of what they THINK they're doing. Fundamentally, Mises is flawed, because he assumes that employers are all intelligent, rational, long seeing and thinking individuals. The truth is anything but.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    You should use quotes rather than color changes when doing the above...color changes prevent me from quoting you responses, making coherent debate increasingly difficult.
    Seems a bit entitled and lazy on your part.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Some will change, but changing one variable does not mean they ALL change. Now we aren't even discussing basic econ but basic math.
    Econ =/= math.

    Econ is more like math + psychology.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    If an employers labor expenses are raised through legislation, the employer has the options of reducing the number of hours worked by each employee, or of laying off an employee...
    There are a whole lot more options than that.

    What's happening is you have a predetermined outcome which you wish to arrive at, so you limit the possibility of events in such a manner as to arrive at the outcome which you wish to arrive at.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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