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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Its possible? This is widely studied and the results are clear-all thats left is spin. We know that for numerous reasons this ends up harming both the consumer and the employee. Businesses will adapt by taking finite resources and reallocating them.
    The results ARE clear, lol. And you're wrong. History proves you such, if you would but check it out with an open mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So scaling back a profitable business typically results in higher profits? Couldn't that be done regardless of how much the min wage is? Hell, why not just fire everyone, that should really increase profits.



    If all a business had to do to increase profits was to jack up it's price, a paper clip would cost a billion dollars today, because businesses would have already done that.



    No, their operating costs would be just the same compared to it's competitors. And if the competitors all jacked up their prices, then the one who didn't would capture a huge portion of market share, and it's profits would skyrocket. If the competitors all alternatively cut back on the quality of the product and customer care (but firing workers), then those competitors who did that would have a less satisfied customer base, and would lose business to those who didn't.

    You have to look at the unintended consequences. They aren't all bad, nor are they all really unintentional. The mistake you are making is that you are taking a formula, and only looking at what would happen if one variable changed. All the variables in economics are dependent and codependent on each other, thus if one variable changes, they all change. that change is not always bad.
    He's a conservative, root word being the antithesis of change.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So scaling back a profitable business typically results in higher profits? Couldn't that be done regardless of how much the min wage is? Hell, why not just fire everyone, that should really increase profits.
    Because then a business could not operate. If it could, they wouldn't have been hired. That is actually the balance businesses have t o find-and its exceedingly difficult.


    If all a business had to do to increase profits was to jack up it's price, a paper clip would cost a billion dollars today, because businesses would have already done that.

    That would violate the laws of supply and demand, nobody would buy a paperclip at that price, and competitors would soon arise.

    No, their operating costs would be just the same compared to it's competitors. And if the competitors all jacked up their prices, then the one who didn't would capture a huge portion of market share, and it's profits would skyrocket. If the competitors all alternatively cut back on the quality of the product and customer care (but firing workers), then those competitors who did that would have a less satisfied customer base, and would lose business to those who didn't.
    Those competitors aren't always harmed in the same amount, and it also increases demand for black market labor (illegals often bypass minimum wage laws altogether. Not all employers use the same measures in addressing the costs, so outcomes will not be the same.

    You have to look at the unintended consequences. Thats exactly what the proponents of minimum wage increases are not doing.
    They aren't all bad, nor are they all really unintentional.Thats nice, it does not change what is bad, and is unintentional. Keep in mind in many cases its quite intentional-labor unions benefit the most because many have contracts that mandate wages set above min. wage-so union shops all get raises-which again passes the costs on to the consumer

    The mistake you are making is that you are taking a formula, and only looking at what would happen if one variable changed. All the variables in economics are dependent and codependent on each other, thus if one variable changes, they all change. that change is not always bad.
    Have you taken math? One variable MAY change others, but it does not mean they ALL change. And while change is not always bad, here its demonstrably harmful. The myths that conceal reality are exceedingly hard to overcome, the left may never learn that-but they will have to deal with the consequences.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't believe a completely automated world will happen. Employers might act like complete dumbasses from time to time, but they have to be aware of the fact that people actually have to buy what they produce.
    That seems logical enough, but businesses don't act on the best behalf of the economy, they act in their own best interest.

    No one business is large enough to significantly effect our macro-economy. I'm all for libertarianism when and where it works, but in this case, it can't work. That's where government comes in as a legitimate factor, when individual business doesn't provide what we need, then government can create mandates or programs that will.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    The results ARE clear, lol. And you're wrong. History proves you such, if you would but check it out with an open mind.
    So why not raise minimum wage to 50 bucks an hour?

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Have you taken math? One variable MAY change others, but it does not mean they ALL change. And while change is not always bad, here its demonstrably harmful. The myths that conceal reality are exceedingly hard to overcome, the left may never learn that-but they will have to deal with the consequences.
    When those variables are interconnected and all actually dependent on each other, they are just about guaranteed to change.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I see no refutation of my post....so....I'm kind of wondering why you linked this?
    You can lead a horse to water...

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    When those variables are interconnected and all actually dependent on each other, they are just about guaranteed to change.
    Some will change, but changing one variable does not mean they ALL change. Now we aren't even discussing basic econ but basic math.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    US Conservative;1064098476]If an employers labor expenses are raised through legislation, the employer has the options of reducing the number of hours worked by each employee, or of laying off an employee.
    You seem to be describing a VERY foolish employer. The good news is, most employers are not so silly as to do this...they understand that you staff for the labor, not for the cost of the staff.
    This would lead to less service and more work for the remaining employees,
    Again, this implies that our hypothetical incredibly foolish employers was not already getting a decent amount of productivity out of their employees, OR that said foolish employer is now going to give more HOURS to the existing employees...
    OR the employer could raise prices to pass on the costs, making them less competitive which also hurts them long run.
    According to you OWN Misis backed economic beliefs, competition would prevent this from happening.
    In the end the employee, employer, and consumer are harmed by govt intervention into the employee-employer contract. This is basic econ, bro. Did you get any college?

    Did you, smart guy?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    So despite the basic laws of economics, increasing operating costs magically benefits everyone?

    Citations, please-and not from left wing blogs.
    The entire 50s and 60s.



    Start there, get back to me when you're done. Schools out for the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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