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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

  1. #231
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    No, I was referring to the arrogance and insulting attitude of someone like yourself defining for another what a living was. "Here's another $30/day. Now you have a living, because I said so". Disgusting.
    Ok. As opposed to what you are doing, which is saying "you don't even deserve to feed yourself because I deem you not worthy of it."
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Ok. As opposed to what you are doing, which is saying "you don't even deserve to feed yourself because I deem you not worthy of it."
    I never wrote that. Don't you look foolish.

    I think it's ridiculous to get a minimum wage job and assume you can live on it. I had 4 roommates in college. We split expenses and sometime pooled money together to get food. At no time, ever, did I see the job I had at the time as anything but a temporary thing. I added a job as a night janitor in an office building when I realized I would need more money. I didn't go to my day job employer and demand he pay me a "living wage". That would have been arrogant and extremely greedy and lazy of me.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    That's it? It's arbitrary? Just because? Nobody had any reason for it?
    Actually, the reason for it was to price child labour out of the marketplace. During the Great Depression, men were so desperate for work that they were willing to take wages children normally got. Any other time before that, attempts to create a minimum wage was always struct down by the Supreme Court and was declared unconstitutional.

    In the UK, we didn't have a national minimum wage until 1999, decades later after the US first instituted theirs, but this only applied to people over the age of 22, so people under 22 wouldn't be affected.

    This is because the minimum wage prices labour out of the marketplace. Most people understand this, except for minimum wage advocators...

  4. #234
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Ok. As opposed to what you are doing, which is saying "you don't even deserve to feed yourself because I deem you not worthy of it."
    Everything is arbitrary to some degree. We can design any sort of economic or social system that we chose to have. There aren't any that are perfect or are perfectly fair, they are what they are.

    The system that I would design, if I was King, would be based upon picking and choosing the best factors from every option. In a way, it would be as extreme as any extremist designed system, but it would be wildly extreme in different directions on different issues.

    That's part of the reason that I don't call myself a moderate or a centrist. I'm not that moderate about much, and I'm rarely in the center, I'm just independent in all sorts of directions.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    If there is a need for it to exist at all, which of course is arguable, then there is a need for it to be tied to inflation.
    There really isn't any need for it to exist at all. It is a price control. Government institute price controls for any number of reasons. Price controls negate the very concept of indexing it to inflation. You either want wages to be dictated by market demands or you don't. More often than not, the minimum wage defeats that very purpose less employers are willing to demand labour at higher prices.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Made up numbers. Math 101.

    do you have a source that can refute the data I linked from the bls?

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I never wrote that. Don't you look foolish.

    I think it's ridiculous to get a minimum wage job and assume you can live on it. I had 4 roommates in college. We split expenses and sometime pooled money together to get food. At no time, ever, did I see the job I had at the time as anything but a temporary thing. I added a job as a night janitor in an office building when I realized I would need more money. I didn't go to my day job employer and demand he pay me a "living wage". That would have been arrogant and extremely greedy and lazy of me.
    You have never asked or negotiated for a raise?

    Personally, I don't see anything wrong with asking for a raise if you feel that you are worth more. Obviously, you didn't feel that you were worth much. There's also nothing greedy or lazy about asking for a raise, it might be foolish to not do so. Someone who wasn't lazy might have asked for more working hours, or they might have asked what additional responsibility they could assume to merit a raise. It almost sounds to me that you knew you were a slacker and weren't worth more.

    At my third, and last job out of college, when I was promoted without a raise. When I asked for a raise, I was told that I should have negotiated a better deal before they hired me. I had no clue that it was possible to negotiate salary. Yes, I was a fool, but most people are when they are young.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  8. #238
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    Actually, the reason for it was to price child labour out of the marketplace. During the Great Depression, men were so desperate for work that they were willing to take wages children normally got. Any other time before that, attempts to create a minimum wage was always struct down by the Supreme Court and was declared unconstitutional.

    In the UK, we didn't have a national minimum wage until 1999, decades later after the US first instituted theirs, but this only applied to people over the age of 22, so people under 22 wouldn't be affected.

    This is because the minimum wage prices labour out of the marketplace. Most people understand this, except for minimum wage advocators...
    The low wage labor market is a different beast than higher income labor markets. Lack of transportation, lack of access to information, how employees are hired as well as the types of jobs they go into all lead to a situation that results in depressed wages. It's a situation that is very lopsided and benefits employers.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    You have never asked or negotiated for a raise?

    Personally, I don't see anything wrong with asking for a raise if you feel that you are worth more. Obviously, you didn't feel that you were worth much. There's also nothing greedy or lazy about asking for a raise, it might be foolish to not do so. Someone who wasn't lazy might have asked for more working hours, or they might have asked what additional responsibility they could assume to merit a raise. It almost sounds to me that you knew you were a slacker and weren't worth more.

    At my third, and last job out of college, when I was promoted without a raise. When I asked for a raise, I was told that I should have negotiated a better deal before they hired me. I had no clue that it was possible to negotiate salary. Yes, I was a fool, but most people are when they are young.
    Of course I've asked for a raise. Love the slacker bit though, I've come to expect that level of discourse from you.

    You see, I realized I needed far more income for grad school than the job I had at the time could pay. It however, offered a good schedule that worked with the time I had available during the day, so I chose to keep it, and get an additional job at night that added the necessary additional income. I cleaned lots and lots of toilets during that 2 year stint, so I have zero sympathy for the truly lazy slackers who demand they get this mythical "living wage" crap the greedy talk about.

    As to negotiating a starting pay, the advice you go was spot on. Pay increases are not to make you equal with others doing similar work. It's typically a reasonable percentage increase based on your salary at the time. Again, proof that it's the individual who is responsible for their lot in life, not the employer.

  10. #240
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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I am defining productivity by it's definition. Many people can start calling a banana a Camaro...but the official definition of the yellow fruit in question is still a banana.

    I simply do not believe that if the government forces a company to pay minimum wage worker 'X' 50 cents more per hour that worker 'X' will work any harder.

    Why should he? The company is not rewarding him for anything, they do not want to give him the extra money and are only doing so because they have no choice. He might feel more loyalty to the government and vote for them next election, but not the company...which is EXACTLY, btw, why most governments do it. Votes.


    I believe there is a vast array of studies that show that any universal wage rate is counter productive to efficiency. If worker A is make the same money as worker W and is a lazy ****, worker W won't likely work any harder than A unless there's some benefit in it.

    The only system that works is direct reward, the smarter, better, harder working make more. The lazy can apply for welfare.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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