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Thread: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Why not? If you can get more productivity out of people by working them less - isn't that what life is all about? I'd rather pay someone $50,000 to do 50 units of work in 30 hours than pay someone $50,000 to do 50 units in 40 hours.
    Of course you would but that is still only one job at $50K to do 50 units of work.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Um, that increase in the minimum wage came during the Bush administration. So you think Bush is a progressive?
    In some ways absolutely.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    I'm assuming you've worked minimum wage before? (I don't mean to sound aggressive, quite a fan of your posts in general.) In some places, the cost of living even in a very modest apartment exceeds the salary of working a full-time minimum wage job. Some have to work a full-time job along with a part-time job, resulting in very little time to devote towards education (which would allow for social mobility and the ceasing of having to work two jobs). Having an abapical minimum wage results in having to work countless hours in unstimulating, monotonous, vapid, uninspiring atmospheres that are nothing less than a prison for the individual mind.
    When I worked for MW (it was $1.60/hour and soon went to $2.00/hour) I shared an apartment becuase, as you said, it was not enough income to meet expenses living alone. MW was then, and still is now, not offered except to entry level workers (under 3% of the workforce) and anyone could exceed that pay by proving themselves to be worth more. The idea that one full-time worker at MW can fully support themselves, much less support a familiy, has never been the case; an entry level McJob was never intended to be a career.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    If you think about it, it would actually create jobs. There is really no question about that.
    It probably would, because in developed countries those making less than subsistence have their living standards raised to some level of subsistence through various government programs. So effectively, minimum wage jobs now, and even more so if it was lowered, involve the government paying part of that employer's wages. It's a direct subsidy of low wage businesses. Maybe we (taxpayers) SHOULD subsidize low wage businesses, but that's a policy question and is the alternative to a "livable" minimum wage.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    ...Maybe we (taxpayers) SHOULD subsidize low wage businesses, but that's a policy question and is the alternative to a "livable" minimum wage.
    I can't think of a single reason that we should have that policy. I'd much prefer to eliminate all forms of means tested welfare, and then use that money to either provide more government services for everyone, or to simply reduce taxation.

    I get accused of being a liberal frequently, but I'm really much more of a libertarian - if something has to be taxpayer subsidized (like McDonalds), then we probably don't really need it. I think that a higher minimum wage would produce a much better economy, than any sort of means tested individual welfare or subsidies to low paying employers.
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Not really

    at below current min wages the people earning that money have very little to spend. If the wages were lowered even more they would have only money to buy food, and perhaps rent a room and share it with other people. They would not have money to spend on other items, they don't spend, they don't create demand for goods and services which would be filled by new jobs
    Now that I think about it, reducing the minimum would not likely add jobs at all. The minimum wage in Ohio is $7.25. The local McDonalds is hiring at a starting wage of $8.50. The market has already accomplished what the liberal politicians dream about. But either way, I don't believe that the purchasing power of those earning minimum impact the overall economy in any significant way.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Now that I think about it, reducing the minimum would not likely add jobs at all. The minimum wage in Ohio is $7.25. The local McDonalds is hiring at a starting wage of $8.50. The market has already accomplished what the liberal politicians dream about. But either way, I don't believe that the purchasing power of those earning minimum impact the overall economy in any significant way.
    "MW laws are destroying jobs"

    "Besides, almost everyone makes more than MW anyway so it won't make a difference"


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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    When I worked for MW (it was $1.60/hour and soon went to $2.00/hour) I shared an apartment becuase, as you said, it was not enough income to meet expenses living alone. MW was then, and still is now, not offered except to entry level workers (under 3% of the workforce) and anyone could exceed that pay by proving themselves to be worth more. The idea that one full-time worker at MW can fully support themselves, much less support a familiy, has never been the case; an entry level McJob was never intended to be a career.
    Exactly. My first job paid a minimum wage of $2.65. I was 16, lived at home, and earned more than enough to buy a car, drive around town and hang out with my friends. Could I raise a family on that income? Of course not. And I am not sure why anyone would think that I should. People tend to get life backwards sometimes. You get a job, develop a skill, earn a decent wage, put some money aside THEN think about raising a family.

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Exactly. My first job paid a minimum wage of $2.65. I was 16, lived at home, and earned more than enough to buy a car, drive around town and hang out with my friends. Could I raise a family on that income? Of course not. And I am not sure why anyone would think that I should. People tend to get life backwards sometimes. You get a job, develop a skill, earn a decent wage, put some money aside THEN think about raising a family.
    That makes sense unless you want to have access to "safety net" help. In that case you basically need a dependent (or two or three) to qualify. Working hard, even for a decent employer, may not get you as high of an initial standard of living as having a child and part-time McJob does. For the long term, your plan is by far the best but, if you simply want to get out on your own ASAP perhaps not.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Now that I think about it, reducing the minimum would not likely add jobs at all. The minimum wage in Ohio is $7.25. The local McDonalds is hiring at a starting wage of $8.50. The market has already accomplished what the liberal politicians dream about. But either way, I don't believe that the purchasing power of those earning minimum impact the overall economy in any significant way.
    It would add jobs... businesses would be more likely to expand, and new business models would become possible. Regardless, like you said, companies pay an employee what they are worth on the market, the Mcdonalds in your area pay 8.50, rather than the minimum because there is more demand for better workers. Reducing minimum wages would also decrease prices of good because labor for the goods would decrease, for companies that uses minimum wage labor.

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