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Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

So why wouldn't that line of thinking apply to Feinstein's little fairy tale here? Seems your belief is situational.
You're talking to the wrong guy, cowboy.
See my sig.
Feinstein is a politician, she is just as likely to spin things to her liking as is any bureaucrat.
 
Hey MMC.
The CIA says lots of things.
Like any gov't bureaucracy, they divulge info---maybe true, maybe not--- and spin that info to make themselves look good.
The CIA needs to be policed by those we send to Congress to represent us. During the time of waterboarding and other means of making a captured terrorist talk, the Intelligence committee was informed 39 times. During it all, the majority did not have a bit of problem with what was occurring including most Democrats.
 
Somehow I'm not convinced that your ignorance is fully honest.

But I'll play along. Combatants will fight harder if they believe that they will be tortured if they are captured, and will surrender easier if they believe they will be well cared for. Obviously you know this, because it's something a 5 year old could figure out.

Which of course is why someone like John McCain would be against torture. Torture always results in a net negative for the side that does it.

And also, lets stop pretending that anyone cares about the effectiveness or the ethics of torture. This isn't about intelligence, it's about revenge. If there were a painless truth drug that made a suspect give up every shred of information, the same people demanding torture now would still support torture. And what's worse, these same people would support it without being able to actually go through with it themselves. I find it hard to respect that.

Well like my brutha JMac stated.....that works for those that are Soldiers. With these terrorists. You forget.....this enemy would rather die than give up.

Yes it was about revenge with Feinstein being upset that the CIA had her under observation.

When there is no other alternative.....then one must use what is a last resort.
 
Even if such was the case. There is no mistaking the meaning. Which only certain condescending people think they can play with such. But then I have never had any trouble making sure one knew when they looked like a fool.

Wow. Its like you just put a bunch of words in a blender and hit 'frappe'.

And if you're not clearly writing, then yes. there is a real possiblity of mistaking the meaning.
 
Wow. Its like you just put a bunch of words in a blender and hit 'frappe'.

And if you're not clearly writing, then yes. there is a real possiblity of mistaking the meaning.

Would you like some others to help with your disconnect? This way you can't say you weren't offered to be plugged in.
 
Happy Friday radio!

I heard quite a few times on both MSNBC and Fox that he (KSM) eventually cracked and gave the information that was missing - and needed - to find OBL. They could be wrong, I don't know but it's said a lot.

Okay, I've heard similar things.
On this thread, MMC and others, have stated that KSM either gave the name of OBL's courier or the fact that OBL used a courier.
What kind of "sophisticated, clever" terrorist leader---OBL---would continue using the same MO after his main man, KSM, was captured?
This sort of alleged stupidity makes me think that the terrorist threat is overblown.....these guys are idiots.
Yeah, AQ hit us pretty good on 911, but that was their high point, they haven't been able to come close since then.
They are nothing.
Luckily, we now have a new "sophisticated, clever" terrorist group, ISIS, to worry about.
 
The CIA needs to be policed by those we send to Congress to represent us. During the time of waterboarding and other means of making a captured terrorist talk, the Intelligence committee was informed 39 times. During it all, the majority did not have a bit of problem with what was occurring including most Democrats.
I mostly agree with you here.
I might be dubious as to the veracity of the info given to the Intelligence Committee.
Wasn't the CIA caught hacking the Senate computers?
I think this event, at least partially, motivated Feinstein.
DiFi has always been a big fan of unlimited gov't surveillance.....
Evidently, Diane doesn't like it so much when that unlimited surveillance is used against her.
 
Did you just call me a psychopath?

I'm not stupid. You quoted my post and posted that. I don't post to people who post wholly ignorant, rude and out of line posts, as you just did. Don't post to me again.

And yet again, if someone implies that a conservative is on anything less than perfect moral standing, the conservative will almost inevitably erupt in defensiveness. Yet that same person almost always feels the right to judge the character of others.

Protip: When anyone of any stripe acts like this, it suggests that he or she has something to hide.
 
I mostly agree with you here.
I might be dubious as to the veracity of the info given to the Intelligence Committee.
Wasn't the CIA caught hacking the Senate computers?
I think this event, at least partially, motivated Feinstein.
DiFi has always been a big fan of unlimited gov't surveillance.....
Evidently, Diane doesn't like it so much when that unlimited surveillance is used against her.

That was the NSA .
The NSA handles most American computer intelligence and decryption, and has also contributed significantly to computer technology around the world. Early computers were developed in the offices of the NSA, and the NSA continues to innovate in the technological field. NSA agents are primarily found in the head offices of the organization in Maryland, although they also work closely with the United States Armed Forces to secure military information on bases and in the battlefield.

Here is a good link to help understand the difference between the NSA, CIA and FBI.

What is the Difference Between the CIA, FBI and NSA?
 
Okay, I've heard similar things.
On this thread, MMC and others, have stated that KSM either gave the name of OBL's courier or the fact that OBL used a courier.
What kind of "sophisticated, clever" terrorist leader---OBL---would continue using the same MO after his main man, KSM, was captured?
This sort of alleged stupidity makes me think that the terrorist threat is overblown.....these guys are idiots.
Yeah, AQ hit us pretty good on 911, but that was their high point, they haven't been able to come close since then.
They are nothing.
Luckily, we now have a new "sophisticated, clever" terrorist group, ISIS, to worry about.



Well, truthfully I think there was more than one courier. But I am not sure once he was in Pakistan.
 
And yet again, if someone implies that a conservative is on anything less than perfect moral standing, the conservative will almost inevitably erupt in defensiveness. Yet that same person almost always feels the right to judge the character of others.

Protip: When anyone of any stripe acts like this, it suggests that he or she has something to hide.

Anything substantive to add, or are you just here to play playground moderator?

I'll let you know when I want to discuss what conservatives think about moral standing. Since I'm not one, I'll pass on discussing them in this thread. Conservatives aren't the subject here. I doubt everyone is interested in your thread derailment either.
 
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Anything substantive to add, or are you just here to play playground moderator?

I'll let you know when I want to discuss what conservatives think about moral standing. Since I'm not one, I'll pass on discussing them in this thread. Conservatives aren't the subject here. I doubt everyone is interested in your thread derailment either.

Bingo. My point exactly. Thank you.
 
Well, truthfully I think there was more than one courier. But I am not sure once he was in Pakistan.
All reported "actionable intelligence" is clouded in nebulous bureaucratese.
I think you will agree that whatever info we, the lumpen proletariat of the USA, are allowed to know is heavily redacted.
 
All reported "actionable intelligence" is clouded in nebulous bureaucratese.
I think you will agree that whatever info we, the lumpen proletariat of the USA, are allowed to know is heavily redacted.

That is another good point.....what was left that was classified that can't be used to show either way.
 
That is another good point.....what was left that was classified that can't be used to show either way.
Who knows?
This topic gives us something to talk/harangue about though.;)
 
I recently came across this article of Samir Naji's 13 year incarceration at Gitmo. Obviously, this is a pretty convienent time for him to tell the tales of his cruel and unusual punishment. Which made me think; isn't that exactly what's being clamed here? Cruel and unusual punishment on United States territory. I've heard from my professor that an obvious consequence of closing Gitmo would be that if we brought these inmates back to the United States we would have to give them due-process. Well...I may be mistaken, but last time I checked, Guantanamo Bay is United states territory. I found it interesting how this man's story was written. Check it out if you wish to.

Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames U.S. flag - CNN.com

It certainly is not Mi Lai, but don't think the United States should allow their people to do this junk and we should punish the idiot kids accordingly. But torture that certainly was not.more like ghetto schoolyard stuff.
 
It's pathetic that this is what we call "torture", and denegrates people who were REALLY tortured in the past, including those at Abu Ghraib where it went much further to physical forms and such. Peopel aren't dying from these techniques (at least they shouldn't, if they do, then people need to answer for that of course). Ultimately, we did get information from these sessions. I don't understand why this is any issue when our enemies are chopping off heads...

Because to me what separates us from ISIS is that we don't resort to brutal techniques of killing and inflicting pain.

What I was born to believe was that the United States condemed all forms of torture.
 
It certainly is not Mi Lai, but don't think the United States should allow their people to do this junk and we should punish the idiot kids accordingly. But torture that certainly was not.more like ghetto schoolyard stuff.

Pornography is considered taboo by devout practitioners of the Islamic faith. So being subjected to it would be considered torture.
 
You're talking to the wrong guy, cowboy.
See my sig.
Feinstein is a politician, she is just as likely to spin things to her liking as is any bureaucrat.

Oh I don't think so sparky....Just because you put a pithy sig on your postings doesn't mean that is how you honestly feel. People in here misrepresent themselves on purpose all the time. You are correct that Feinstein is a politician, however, until she did this I actually could honestly say I respected here if not her beliefs in liberalism. But this...This is little more than hackery...Think about it, we hashed this out years ago, and we Repubs lost the debate for the most part, and a law was passed against it, and the interrogations stopped. The question that needs to be answered here is why now? Why at this moment?

It is true that there may be NO time that is good for its release, however, this was a release timed for two reasons that are pretty clear. 1. DiFi was mad as hell that the CIA spyed on her report, and committee. 2. That she knew that the time that she was able to get this one sided, factually inaccurate report out was quickly disappearing. And as a side benefit, they got to splash this out at a time when politically it was convenient to soften the testimony of Gruber in the House...Not that there aren't a scandal a minute with this bunch of libs these days. But I mean seriously, what is it that libs want with this really? Are we back to the crazy 'Arrest Bush', 'Arrest Cheney' Cindy Sheehan crowd? Is that it? Because that is just Bat **** crazy, and is never going to happen.
 
I recently came across this article of Samir Naji's 13 year incarceration at Gitmo. Obviously, this is a pretty convienent time for him to tell the tales of his cruel and unusual punishment. Which made me think; isn't that exactly what's being clamed here? Cruel and unusual punishment on United States territory. I've heard from my professor that an obvious consequence of closing Gitmo would be that if we brought these inmates back to the United States we would have to give them due-process. Well...I may be mistaken, but last time I checked, Guantanamo Bay is United states territory. I found it interesting how this man's story was written. Check it out if you wish to.

Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames U.S. flag - CNN.com

A nice piece of enemy propaganda, for anyone gullible enough to be taken in by it. Since when does the Eighth Amendment apply to aliens detained outside the U.S.? And last time I checked, the Supreme Court was contriving a way in Boumediene v. Bush to make Guantanamo U.S. territory, using a lot of elaborate nonsense about de facto and de jure territory. Of course that result-oriented sleight-of-hand involved the majority in dishonestly overruling Johnson v. Eisentrager, a 1950 decision that was directly contrary, while refusing to admit that's what it was doing. Guantanamo is part of the territory of Cuba, occupied by the U.S. under the terms of a perpetual lease.
 
Pornography is considered taboo by devout practitioners of the Islamic faith. So being subjected to it would be considered torture.

:roll: Oh please.... You mean the same devout practitioners that routinely have sex with very young boys and girls? The same oh so pure people that rape women then when they can't get three other males to corroborate their story stones the victim to death? The very same practitioners of the so called religion of peace that behead those that won't change to their belief system, or pay extortion?

Oh yeah, they sound like very docile people.
 
Not to give the NSA a pass, but it was the CIA that hacked DiFi's computers.
Google "CIA hacks Senate computers".



Thank you teacher.
No tutorial needed.
All massive bureaucracies, are able to do as they please under the guise of "National Security".

Thanks for straightening me out. I thought it was the NSA. Maybe because of knowing the NSA deals with computers etc.
So I went and educated myself. It appears to be a work of a couple of folks within the CIA. It was the CIA director, Brennen who ordered a complete investigation of the hacking. I couldn't find any criminal charges brought over the hacking. Did You? And the hack was directly linked to this report being released. The report was comprised by third parties. To my understanding no direct testimony from those who were directly involved were asked to give testimony. I'm wondering if the hack didn't take place to check to see if it leaked out information that would be damning to our allies and informants and give them a heads up in advance. Just a thought.

So yeah you are right, that seems to have poison Feinsteins relationship with the CIA but doesn't excuse her from all the times she thought their activities in interrogation were justified and now claims to find them appauling.
 
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