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Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This war wasn't started by us, but we've been meddling in the affairs of the middle east for over 60 years. Even more if you want to talk about conflict in general between Europe/West and the Middle East.
    Yes, we are a great nation with wide-ranging interests, responsibilities and obligations. That does not change the fact that our current war will continue.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Yes, we are a great nation with wide-ranging interests, responsibilities and obligations. That does not change the fact that our current war will continue.
    I have no doubt this infinity war will continue. It's just not going to solve anything. No matter how many American lives you throw at it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I have no doubt this infinity war will continue. It's just not going to solve anything. No matter how many American lives you throw at it.
    Few wars solve anything. Most just establish the conditions for the next round. Epochal outcomes like WW2 in 1945 are rare. The current war is powered by political, social, economic and cultural decay in the Muslim world, and the frustration and rage generated by that. It took centuries of decline to bring them to this point, let us hope the fever subsides in only decades.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Few wars solve anything. Most just establish the conditions for the next round. Epochal outcomes like WW2 in 1945 are rare. The current war is powered by political, social, economic and cultural decay in the Muslim world, and the frustration and rage generated by that. It took centuries of decline to bring them to this point, let us hope the fever subsides in only decades.
    The last declared one solved a problem. Probably why we shouldn't go to war unless we can get an actual declaration.

    So how many more years? How many more Americans are you willing to sacrifice for your war?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The truth? You can't. You can try to work with countries and people in order to create a more friendly environment and one built a bit better on trade and diplomacy. But the number will never be zero.
    Okay ... there are a couple of problems with that approach.
    1) Countries are disinclined to work with us if we show weakness because it encourages terrorism in Countries of erstwhile allies like Pakistan because it works to intimidate them into not cooperating with us.
    2) We show weakness by withdrawing as we are doing and maybe even more importantly, by shooting ourselves in our own ass by releasing things like the Gitmo report which can do no good in the sense we're discussing here.

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The last declared one solved a problem. Probably why we shouldn't go to war unless we can get an actual declaration.

    So how many more years? How many more Americans are you willing to sacrifice for your war?
    For the third time, the timetable is not ours to set. All I can say is that we must prevail.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Okay ... there are a couple of problems with that approach.
    1) Countries are disinclined to work with us if we show weakness because it encourages terrorism in Countries of erstwhile allies like Pakistan because it works to intimidate them into not cooperating with us.
    2) We show weakness by withdrawing as we are doing and maybe even more importantly, by shooting ourselves in our own ass by releasing things like the Gitmo report which can do no good in the sense we're discussing here.
    Oh? But throwing American lives at a problem through actions which have proven, through history, to not be effective; that's the solution?

    So "showing weakness" means what? Examining our past actions and how much progress has been made and lost, then augmenting our actions based on those facts? How many more decades? How many more American lives? How many more trillions of dollars? It's all I want to know.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    For the third time, the timetable is not ours to set. All I can say is that we must prevail.
    Yet another convenient argument. You can say all you want, it doesn't make it any less of a deflection against the statement. How many more Americans need to die before you're satisfied?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yet another convenient argument. You can say all you want, it doesn't make it any less of a deflection against the statement. How many more Americans need to die before you're satisfied?
    I already answered but you apparently did not recognize the answer. We will incur as many casualties over as many years as it takes to win.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Oh? But throwing American lives at a problem through actions which have proven, through history, to not be effective; that's the solution?

    So "showing weakness" means what? Examining our past actions and how much progress has been made and lost, then augmenting our actions based on those facts? How many more decades? How many more American lives? How many more trillions of dollars? It's all I want to know.
    For one thing, the number of lives not lost and dollars not spent are not a measurement of success against terrorism.

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