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Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    All were? Then why did we release some and pay them money for their troubles?

    It's curious the new right wing position is to embrace any atrocity, and a total disregard for human rights.
    Since I'm not right wing your generalization fails. There were some mistakes, as always happens in war. Those do not invalidate the general proposition. The language of human rights has become has become nothing more than a political tool in our hypocritical age.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Please explain how in the world whether something is torture or not depends on the "purpose." All that means is, with your definition, if we do it, it's not torture because we have a just "purpose." It's not supported by anything - no law or theory could possibly hinge the decision on something as subjective as its "purpose."

    Besides, what's a valid purpose that would excuse any technique - ripping out fingernails, electric shocks to the genitals, breaking bones one at a time, waterboarding - as not-torture? Who makes that determination - the person getting tortured/not-tortured or the government doing the torture/not-torture. You're surely not suggesting the government doing it gets to decide are you, although that's what's happening in the case of the U.S.?
    I begin to tire of this. I am not going to convince you nor any other anti-American leftist. I think I will move on to something else more useful.

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    First of all, without the acts, there would be nothing to reveal. And anyone who thought we could have an extensive rendition and brutal interrogation program going on for years without it being disclosed is criminally stupid.

    Second, I guess your definition of 'traitor' is someone who doesn't blindly accepts what his government does, and criticizes it when it does wrong. Of course, what it really means is someone who disagrees with far right wingers on what is a wrongdoing by government.
    We shall see. In my opinion the damage is enormous, lasting and deadly. It remains to be seen if it is fatal.

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Read the report - I don't have to know exactly what JoG went through to be 100% positive his experience was NOTHING like that of the detainees, with regard to waterboarding and all that went with it. At the very least, KSM had 15 sessions, of more than 10 "applications" per session. In some cases 4 'sessions' per day. Towards the end, they used their hands to keep an inch of water suspended above his mouth so it was impossible to breath anything but water. He was ingesting enough water the medical personnel worried about water poisoning and advised that they use saline. One detainee at least went completely unresponsive - passed out from lack of oxygen, aka was drowned and brought back to life.

    The brutal interrogation went on for months, in several cases weeks nearly 24/7, and when they weren't being waterboarded, shackled with their hands over their head in a standing position, or stuffed into a small box, or doused with water in a cold room, etc. Months or years entirely in solitary confinement, completely dark, etc. Some officers witnessing the techniques or doing it were brought to tears, because they weren't sociopaths, and they recognize this wasn't just an interrogation, but treating a human being like a rabid dog.



    Ok, I guess if a person dying is 'no big deal' that says a lot. But if you read the report, you'll note that people in charge who had NO idea what the hell they were doing was more the norm than the exception.
    It is no big deal.

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Im surprised that as a Canadian, you think your opinion matters.

    In the real world, what we generally do is work to improve the country, rather than throwing a hissy fit and stomping off.

    I think the torture that the US did was awful, shameful and should never be repeated again. And making that clear is the first thing one needs to do - because I would hope this nation will never accept this type of behavior again.
    Interrogation is not torture.

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Interrogation is not torture.
    The terms are not mutually exclusive, you know.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Giving rights to enemies now? Great idea...
    yes, good point. We should take all rights away from everyone. If they need rights, they must have done something wrong.
    Time flies like an arrow; fruitflies like a banana. - Groucho

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    The terms are not mutually exclusive, you know.
    Right. Our interrogations were not torture. Did that clear it up a bit for you?

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Great care was taken to ensure that that the detainees' health and well being were not permanently impaired. They were nonetheless unlawful enemy combatants with no right to Geneva Conventions protections. In that context, everything done to them that fell short of summary execution was an act of charity.
    The problem is, how do we know they are "unlawful enemy combatants"? They weren't all picked up on some battlefield.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The problem is, how do we know they are "unlawful enemy combatants"? They weren't all picked up on some battlefield.
    Many were indeed picked up on the battlefield. Most of the rest were captured in raids on identified combatant centers.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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