Page 81 of 99 FirstFirst ... 3171798081828391 ... LastLast
Results 801 to 810 of 982

Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

  1. #801
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,177

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Im surprised that as a Canadian, you think your opinion matters.

    In the real world, what we generally do is work to improve the country, rather than throwing a hissy fit and stomping off.

    I think the torture that the US did was awful, shameful and should never be repeated again. And making that clear is the first thing one needs to do - because I would hope this nation will never accept this type of behavior again.
    You're funny - you bleat and moan about not treating other nations and nationals with respect and dignity and then you claim my opinion is of no value because I'm Canadian. Priceless.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #802
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You're funny - you bleat and moan about not treating other nations and nationals with respect and dignity and then you claim my opinion is of no value because I'm Canadian. Priceless.
    Exactly. Much of their concerns has been over what other countries may think of them and yet, when foreigners offer their opinions, this is the response. It is funny!

  3. #803
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,177

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Exactly. Much of their concerns has been over what other countries may think of them and yet, when foreigners offer their opinions, this is the response. It is funny!
    I assume I'm supposed to hate America now and I'm perfectly within my rights to become a terrorist because nasty American Threegoofs insulted me and bruised my wittle feelings.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #804
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Prissy congresswomen who exploit this stuff and rail against the civility of this nation shame the flag.
    Those who act against the foundations of the republic, reacting in fear and being incapable of recognizing the rights and liberties of others do the same.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #805
    Quantum sufficit

    Threegoofs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The birthplace of Italian Beef
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,523

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You're funny - you bleat and moan about not treating other nations and nationals with respect and dignity and then you claim my opinion is of no value because I'm Canadian. Priceless.
    Your opinion of me has little value and being Canadian is only a small part of that.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  6. #806
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    It's not just we, it's universal. The unacceptable becomes acceptable in direct proportion to the potential for defeat.
    In that case, we have no excuse as we were not, are not and will not face defeat from these insects.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #807
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:20 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,719

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I doubt you know that any of those techniques was ever applied other than in the way approved. And even if one was, that is no more than to say individual persons took actions for which they could be punished--not that the United States made it policy.
    The report is full of examples of techniques being used outside the bounds of what was approved. And when it was discovered that persons acted outside policy, nothing happened. That means the acts were approved policy in every way that actually matters.

    I'm not part of your "we," and neither are many people I've discussed this with. Who has called what actions torture for a century? The enhanced interrogation techniques that were used had not even been proposed until about twelve years ago. And why would it matter what incorrect descriptions of an act someone made? Whether any action the U.S. authorized rose to the level of torture or not is a legal question, just as whether the act of killing a person is justifiable homicide or manslaughter or murder is a legal question. The fact you or anyone else assert that an act is "torture" does not make it that.
    First of all, people have obviously different opinions on the purely legal question. One of the head OLC guys appointed by Bush resigned over that difference. So to hold the position, the person had to agree that what we did wasn't torture. So that those who did hold and keep the position drew the required legal boxes around their clients acts isn't surprising, and them saying what their client requires them to say doesn't make it so either.

    Second, waterboarding has a history going back at least a century. Here's a link that documents a long history of how the U.S. treated waterboarding in that period - as torture. I could be wrong, but I reviewed the Bybee memo again and didn't see any of this history discussed, probably because it doesn't help the case.

    http://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/...t_20061016.pdf

    I think your statements about this would be more convincing if you had at least read and understood the OLC memos analyzing the question whether any of the enhanced interrogation techniques was torture under U.S. law.
    I've read them, or several of them. The memos conclude that torture is only severe pain etc. which the analysis indicates is roughly something that leaves a permanent mark, and so waterboarding and all the rest doesn't meet the threshold. For the mental pain, we have to INTEND to inflict mental problems and so if it happens, and we don't intend that results, all's good. And there was really no meaningful analysis of the effect of the program as a whole except mostly baseless or at best speculative conclusions.

    And so, the treatments in part or as a program might/likely be 'cruel, inhuman and degrading' but definitely NOT "torture." QED.

    Besides, the treaties don't apply and Congress can't tie the POTUS's hands, so the whole thing is moot if the POTUS says it's for "national security," so we're good because we have a couple of get out of jail free cards no matter what techniques we use.

    Where the specific techniques are discussed, the memo that I saw took great pains to spell out the assumptions, and said when this long, long list of assumptions is met, which didn't happen in at least several cases if not most cases in actual practice, no problem (apparently per your analysis). For example, for the water bath, it was assumed temp can't be below 41 degrees but we immersed detainees in ice baths. If a detainee is kept naked the ambient temp was assumed to be no less than 68 degrees, but it was 50 degrees in one jail (the one where the person died of hypothermia).

    Basically, the memos read like "A Guide in How to Achieve the Same Effect as "Torture" Within U.N./U.S. Statutory Guidelines."

  8. #808
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,868

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    It was torture according to the UN, to the people who were actually carrying it out, to any reasonable observer. Clinging to your technical judicial analysis is sweet, but not too relevant.

    The US tortured. Theres a 4000 page report out there describing it. I know you like to pretend it isnt happening, but no one else wants to accept your delusions.

    And Cheney and Bush probably dont feel free to travel, much like multiple other CIA agents that have been convicted in other nations already.
    I'll leave it to others to decide which of us is pretending, or harbors delusions about this subject. I doubt very much that my sense you are eager to run down the United States while holding out the crying towel for the jihadists who chose to make war on it is any delusion--you've made it all too clear.

  9. #809
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Those who act against the foundations of the republic, reacting in fear and being incapable of recognizing the rights and liberties of others do the same.
    Can you enlarge on this idea?

  10. #810
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Your opinion of me has little value and being Canadian is only a small part of that.
    What about other foreigners? Do their opinions matter? Is it the French again?

Page 81 of 99 FirstFirst ... 3171798081828391 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •