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Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The question is whether what we did was "torture" or just some Orwellian phrase like EIT. Whether it's torture or not has NOTHING to do with whether the person on the receiving end had protections under the Geneva Convention under which we could be PROSECUTED for doing it. It's whether we could torture them without restraint and face no legal consequences.

    And of course Cheney, Bush and Obama will not be prosecuted - I haven't suggested they should be, and this discussion isn't about that. If we want to talk legalities, then all we should be citing are various laws, treaties and court cases. Last time I checked, almost no one is doing any of that.
    Because it's already been settled....At least for us. A law was passed, the practice stopped, and we were years past this....Now, for political fodder Feinstein has opened the wound. And you did suggest that Bush, or Cheney, or Both should be prosecuted. But that's beside the point.

    The point is Holder had Justice investigate, and prosecuted no one....why?
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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So the report and not what it reveals is the issue. Shoot the messenger isn't actually a good defense.
    Yes it is. Feinstein is a traitor, unindicted. Releasing that report has caused enormous damage to the US. This is why we classify things. This is why the report was initially top secret.

    But I hope the CIA is neutered, at least to some extent. An agency that is arrogant enough to hack into the computers of Senators, accuse THEM of a crime, lie about what was done, etc. is out of control and if there was any justice, and Obama had any backbone, we'd have seen some extremely senior leaders of the CIA out on their asses, and brought up on charges.
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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    All you're saying is if they were not protected by Convention or law, it was LEGAL to torture them. Whether it's legal doesn't change what was done.
    Harsh interrogation is not torture.

    "You really don't understand the difference between wartime intelligence gathering and peacetime criminal justice do you?"

    That's not the point - it's either torture or it's not.
    You should have simply admitted that you either don't understand or don't care.

    The legality of it doesn't affect that determination in the slightest. I understand the problem, it's obviously torture, so you have to find some way to justify it or distinguish it from what we did. If you want to say it's OK to torture in wartime, but not on domestic prisoners, fine. There are meaningful distinctions there - it's rational to draw that line and it's one that can easily be drawn. What is pathetic is saying that one is torture because it's illegal, but if it's legal it's not-torture.
    I have not made that case at all. You have.
    I am not against torture in wartime under the right circumstances. But this situation is not that situation.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 12-14-14 at 11:49 PM.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    "Individual slaves did not. But their offspring did."
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LMAO. An entire people had their rights extinguished, for hundreds of years. It wasn't just individuals.
    Let's see a show of hands. How many black people, descendents of slaves, want a one way ticket back to their roots in Africa?
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 12-14-14 at 11:49 PM.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You didn't look very hard - I had linked to the PHYSICIAN earlier. Sorry if you didn't keep up.
    You were sloppy in your "quote".

    And my entire point was inserting food into the rectum wasn't medicine. If you agree, why demand a quote from a physician?
    You made it appear that you were making a claim that a doctor would make. I was challenging that you were a doctor.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JUG View Post
    Yes, and that's exactly the same loophole that's being used in this case. You can hold them if they're considered "enemy combatants". Thank you.
    Prisoners of war are held until the war is over. Unlawful enemy combatants are war criminals. They can be executed.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post

    What's funny is I KNOW without a shred of doubt that if Obama gets his OLC to write a memo legalizing seizing all your guns, it won't matter what the lawyers say. But you want to hang your hat on that same BS rationale in this discussion, when if it was something you opposed you'd care exactly ZERO what Holder's DOJ or an Obama flunky wrote in a memo or got some court to sign off on. You know this, so don't pretend otherwise.
    That would be grounds for a revolution.

    This is not. He is welcome to have his cabinet draft a memo saying he can seize of of the ISIS weapons.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Prisoners of war are held until the war is over. Unlawful enemy combatants are war criminals. They can be executed.
    I'm amused that you stick with international law to designate some combatants 'unlawful', but you are happy to ignore the law that the U.S. clearly is in breach of- the UN torture treaty.

    You pick and choose, but you do it in such an abjectly worthless manner as to be amusing.
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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Moderator's Warning:
    Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]Cease the personal attacks. Some have already received consequences. If you want to be next, try me.
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    Re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I'm amused that you stick with international law to designate some combatants 'unlawful', but you are happy to ignore the law that the U.S. clearly is in breach of- the UN torture treaty.

    You pick and choose, but you do it in such an abjectly worthless manner as to be amusing.
    We are a sovereign nation. We CAN pick and choose. We recognize the Geneva Conventions. Unlawful enemy combatants are war criminals. They are not protected.

    Given that in your mind everyone tortures everybody it would appear that the UN torture treaty, whatever that is, is not very effective.

    We interrogate to get information. That is not torture.

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