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Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Last I heard a bunch of Cubans dumped here by plane by Castro years ago are still in Federal prisons with no release date.

    So there's precedent for holding people on US soil without due process.
    Yes, and that's exactly the same loophole that's being used in this case. You can hold them if they're considered "enemy combatants". Thank you.
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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is what we see all over today from the radical left....Laws don't matter. All that matters is what they personally think of it, and we should cede punishment based on their personal views on a matter.
    I didn't say laws don't matter. Of course they matter with regard to whether we prosecute and jail Cheney and Bush and the people all up and down the line involved in torture, or Obama for the drone program, etc. But no one is talking about that, or at least I'm not.

    If you want to explain why waterboarding isn't "torture" then for this discussion you must be able to do it without regard to what lawyers conjured up to fit it in a legal box. It doesn't matter for purposes of the ethics of it or the morality or the effect of those 'techniques' on our reputation or what kind of country - do we respect human rights or not - we want to be.

    What's funny is I KNOW without a shred of doubt that if Obama gets his OLC to write a memo legalizing seizing all your guns, it won't matter what the lawyers say. But you want to hang your hat on that same BS rationale in this discussion, when if it was something you opposed you'd care exactly ZERO what Holder's DOJ or an Obama flunky wrote in a memo or got some court to sign off on. You know this, so don't pretend otherwise.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So taser's are now "torture"?
    Of course, if used in an interrogation, repeatedly (e.g. 183 times over 5 sessions). If that's not torture, then what is?

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You are j-mac, are you not? All I did was boldface your text in quotes and said I agreed with it. So how can you say you didn't write it?
    Well, I would say that is was interpreted differently. But ok...

    You're shifting the subject, but let me say that from a moral standpoint the sins of one generation should not fall to the next. On the other hand, if a nation makes a promise it should keep it. We don't normally abrogate treaties when the signatories die, nor do we repudiate debts incurred by our grandparents.
    At some point the endless victimhood has to stop. People need to take responsibility for changing their own circumstance if that is what they desire. Seems to me this endless victimhood is just excuse for never having to say that anything they do is wrong....We don't do that with children, they'd be spoiled, we shouldn't do it with entire segments of society either.
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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I didn't say laws don't matter. Of course they matter with regard to whether we prosecute and jail Cheney and Bush and the people all up and down the line involved in torture, or Obama for the drone program, etc. But no one is talking about that, or at least I'm not.

    If you want to explain why waterboarding isn't "torture" then for this discussion you must be able to do it without regard to what lawyers conjured up to fit it in a legal box. It doesn't matter for purposes of the ethics of it or the morality or the effect of those 'techniques' on our reputation or what kind of country - do we respect human rights or not - we want to be.

    What's funny is I KNOW without a shred of doubt that if Obama gets his OLC to write a memo legalizing seizing all your guns, it won't matter what the lawyers say. But you want to hang your hat on that same BS rationale in this discussion, when if it was something you opposed you'd care exactly ZERO what Holder's DOJ or an Obama flunky wrote in a memo or got some court to sign off on. You know this, so don't pretend otherwise.
    I think your mistake is in thinking that these people are afforded the rights I am. That is not the case. Further if you really think that this will lead to Bush or Cheney being prosecuted in ANY court, you are mistaken...Obama when he took office instructed Holder to do an extensive investigation on whether or not any of those involved could be prosecuted for what took place, and guess what....Nothing...No indictment, no prosecution, so this is just a fantasy of yours.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    This is incorrect.
    Sorry, but your knowledge deficit is showing.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What???? JoG wasn't held in whatever black site we waterboarded our detainees, subjected to waterboarding as just one of many interrogation techniques - torture. Different circumstances in every way.

    And of course you can't address the example - cops getting tased in training doesn't mean that using a taser on a prisoner isn't torture.
    I don't care at all about cops and tasers. And the detainees subjected to EIT had every bit of the safeguards as JoG.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    From the FBI FAQ:

    The new Summary definition of Rape is: “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or
    anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without
    the consent of the victim.”

    "Rectal rehydration", used on at least five prisoners, fits the description.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think your mistake is in thinking that these people are afforded the rights I am. That is not the case. Further if you really think that this will lead to Bush or Cheney being prosecuted in ANY court, you are mistaken...Obama when he took office instructed Holder to do an extensive investigation on whether or not any of those involved could be prosecuted for what took place, and guess what....Nothing...No indictment, no prosecution, so this is just a fantasy of yours.
    The question is whether what we did was "torture" or just some Orwellian phrase like EIT. Whether it's torture or not has NOTHING to do with whether the person on the receiving end had protections under the Geneva Convention under which we could be PROSECUTED for doing it. It's whether we could torture them without restraint and face no legal consequences.

    And of course Cheney, Bush and Obama will not be prosecuted - I haven't suggested they should be, and this discussion isn't about that. If we want to talk legalities, then all we should be citing are various laws, treaties and court cases. Last time I checked, almost no one is doing any of that.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    From the FBI FAQ:

    The new Summary definition of Rape is: “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or
    anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without
    the consent of the victim.”

    "Rectal rehydration", used on at least five prisoners, fits the description.
    Per General Hayden:

    "That was a medical procedure. That was done because of detainee health. But the people responsible there for the health of these detainees saw that they were becoming dehydrated. They had limited options in which to go do this. It was intravenous with needles, which would be dangerous with a noncooperative detainee. It was through the nasal passages."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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