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Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What's your point then? We agree it was degradation/humiliation/sodomy etc. and wasn't done for any medical purpose.
    My first point was that I saw no indications that you were quoting anybody.
    My second point was harsh interrogation techniques are not intended to be medicine. Both points should have been very easy for you to understand.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Was the individual an unlawful combatant?
    It makes no difference except to the potential legality of the torture (or not-torture). You're hanging your hat on a legal technicality to avoid admitting the obvious - self denial is a good thing on this topic.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If they survive and do not suffer any permanent scars or disfigurements then it is not torture.
    There is no definition of torture anywhere that makes that kind of distinction.

    Seriously, if you attached a prisoner's testicles to a set of electrical cables and delivered debilitating shocks 100 times, there isn't a person on earth who would call that anything but torture. And yet the burns would heal and unless he had a heart attack he'd likely survive. Makes no difference.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I believe I answered this a post or two back. Rather than repeat what I wrote scroll back a few messages.

    Ultimately it comes down to purpose.
    It really does not come down to that. It's a way to justify something, or rationalize it, or to engage in self delusion about what we did, but that's not a dividing line.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It makes no difference except to the potential legality of the torture (or not-torture). You're hanging your hat on a legal technicality to avoid admitting the obvious - self denial is a good thing on this topic.
    Of course it does. An unlawful combatant, is a war criminal. A prisoner of war is a lawful combatant and is protected by the protocols in the Geneva Conventions.

    We agree. Your denial, over and over and over, is a good thing for you.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Are you unfamiliar with Obama's aggressive drone program he uses to assassinate people he chooses? Those strikes routinely kill nearby people. I do not see much argument against killing people the way i do about making them uncomfortable.
    There isn't much argument because no one is defending it, and it's a different topic. If you want to discuss the drone program, start a thread. I'll participate.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    There isn't much argument because no one is defending it, and it's a different topic. If you want to discuss the drone program, start a thread. I'll participate.
    I started one thread. Apparently I failed to meet all of the requirements so it got squashed. I doubt I shall ever start another.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    No. It is the report. And the damage has been done. The US will become isolated even more than under Obama. We will see Americans killed by lone wolf attacks within this country. We will see successful recruiting for the Jihadists. And the CIA will be demoralized and neutered. These are all bad things that flow directly from Feinstein's treasonous release of this report.
    So the report and not what it reveals is the issue. Shoot the messenger isn't actually a good defense.

    But I hope the CIA is neutered, at least to some extent. An agency that is arrogant enough to hack into the computers of Senators, accuse THEM of a crime, lie about what was done, etc. is out of control and if there was any justice, and Obama had any backbone, we'd have seen some extremely senior leaders of the CIA out on their asses, and brought up on charges.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    It's difficult to properly summarize more than two centuries of American history in a paragraph, but all too often I've seen a Fractured Fairytales version of American history that tends to gloss over the fact that throughout our history we've done what we felt we needed to do to survive and prosper, even if that meant we didn't always act like a saint. But if you want to give a specific example of how I've mischaracterized or misrepresented those aspects of American history I touched upon I'd be happy to indulge you.

    What you don't seem to get is that your evaluation through a modern lens is flawed. We DID largely act like saints, for the period those events took place in, in the context of that day.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Okay, tell me, under the GCs is it lawful to torture spies and saboteurs?

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