Page 69 of 99 FirstFirst ... 1959676869707179 ... LastLast
Results 681 to 690 of 982

Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

  1. #681
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,851
    Blog Entries
    2

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Correct, interrogations are not torture. But "enhanced interrogation" techniques are, by definition, and by international law, torture.
    False.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #682
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    False.
    As I said earlier, here is the definition of torture:

    Torture - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    : the act of causing severe physical pain as a form of punishment or as a way to force someone to do or say something

    : something that causes mental or physical suffering : a very painful or unpleasant experience
    So, I think we can agree that it is torture by the definition of the word, right? And International Law:

    APT - A legal definition of torture
    "Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."
    The above is from "Article 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is the internationally agreed legal definition of torture" (of which we are a member).
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  3. #683
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,813

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    "You are not curious.

    Where were the individuals captured? Were they waging war against the "host" country? Were they in uniform and was the war declared? If so they are Prisoners of War and must be treated humanely. Anything else is an act of war. Under an actual leader we might go to war to resolve such a travesty.

    You show yourself as one unschooled."
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If they were like most of our prisoners in GITMO, they were captured on a city street, not engaged in any acts of 'hostility' at that moment, but turned in by a bounty hunter. The point is you're assuming that if they were arrested, they are guilty.
    If this is your scenario then what you posted before was trolling.

    Every terrorist has an anti-American lawyer, someone like Eric Holder. The democratic staffers who wrote the hit piece interviewed the lawyers but not the CIA leadership, planners or interrogators.

    You said most of the detainees in Guantanamo Bay were not engaged in hostilities against the US. Are you claiming that less than one-half of the detainees are unlawful combatants or high value leadership of terrorist organizations?

    And to say a leader would go to war to resolve such a travesty just means we'd demand human rights for our own people to the point of declaring war to enforce them. If a country doesn't have the ability to wage war on the U.S., too f'ing bad for their people I guess. It's a nice version of rights you got there - essentially, if you're a powerful country, your people get them. If you're not, then your people don't have any and the U.S. has no responsibility to recognize any human rights for non-Americans. So they're not rights, but whatever can be enforced at the end of a gun.
    Your nation may choose to defend your rights. If you are waging legal war then you have rights agreed to by treaty. If your citizens are snatched off the streets and they are not waging unlawful war nor are they committing illegal acts then yes, the citizen's nation may go to war to recover its citizens.

  4. #684
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,851
    Blog Entries
    2

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    As I said earlier, here is the definition of torture:

    Torture - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


    So, I think we can agree that it is torture by the definition of the word, right? And International Law:

    APT - A legal definition of torture


    The above is from "Article 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is the internationally agreed legal definition of torture" (of which we are a member).
    Since a majority of the countries that adopted and ratified the UN Convention have routinely practiced torture by their own definition and continue to do so I think we can set that aside as the laughable hypocrisy that it is. As for the dictionary definition, it fits nothing done by the US.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #685
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Since a majority of the countries that adopted and ratified the UN Convention have routinely practiced torture by their own definition and continue to do so I think we can set that aside as the laughable hypocrisy that it is. As for the dictionary definition, it fits nothing done by the US.
    Agreed on the hypocrisy. As far as the dictionary definition:

    :the act of causing severe physical pain as a form of punishment or as a way to force someone to do or say something

    : something that causes mental or physical suffering : a very painful or unpleasant experience

    We beat prisoners, waterboarded them, forced them to stay awake, injected pureed food into their ass, and had them standing with their arms chained above their heads (while being forced to stay awake) for 180 hours. That would clearly cause severe physical and mental pain (and it was for the purpose of forcing them to do or say something).

    It's literally the definition.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  6. #686
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,813

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's not the point - if your son gets captured, you would be SATISFIED he was treated fairly if he got the "he has no rights" treatment and "enhanced interrogation" you support for people not like you.

    The point is we should treat our detainees with the same respect for rights that we'd expect/demand of others for our people. If your son/brother was waterboarded 5/183 times in custody, you know and I know and we all know you'd consider his treatment torture. And if some Congressman, a democrat, in testimony, said, "He wasn't tortured, he was just made to feel uncomfortable, I'm not sure the U.S. can intervene. His rights are being respected." if you were half a man, you'd likely have to be restrained to keep from punching him.
    Was the individual an unlawful combatant?

  7. #687
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,813

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    "We are making people uncomfortable. They tell us stuff. We combine that stuff with other stuff. Smart people toss it in a salad bowl. What idiot told you it would STOP terrorism?"

    And...

    "We made people uncomfortable. We did it so they would tell us what they knew about future attacks. You do remember what happened on September 11? Did you go to the streets and pass out candy to the children?"
    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    In the first quote you responded to me after I said that the interrogations hasn't stopped terrorism and you asked what idiot told me it did so I could gather from your next statement you are the idiot saying they do stop future attacks aka terrorism when we interrogate them and they tell us what they know about future attacks, which could stop terrorism from occurring. Because I never said it helped to stop terrorism completely, right?
    Do you believe that stopping one attack stops terrorism? I do not.

    You used the phrase that you were told it would stop terrorism. I said it would give us knowledge of future attacks. Do you see the difference?

    Also I understand shoving some food up your ass isn't uncomfortable for you but for others it is a little more than uncomfortable.
    I believe it is uncomfortable. I do not believe it is torture.

  8. #688
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I believe it is uncomfortable. I do not believe it is torture.
    If they survive and do not suffer any permanent scars or disfigurements then it is not torture.

  9. #689
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    I believe this is relevant to the discussion....

    "There is, first of all, the matter of morality. Critics of enhanced interrogation techniques have taken to saying that Americans don’t torture, period – meaning in this instance that we do not engage in coercive interrogation techniques ranging from sleep deprivation to prolonged loud noise and/or bright lights to waterboarding. Anyone who holds the opposite view is a moral cretin and guilty of “arrant inhumanity.” Or so the argument goes.

    But this posture begins to come apart under examination. For one thing, the issue of “torture” itself needs to be put in a moral context and on a moral continuum. Waterboarding is a very nasty technique for sure – but it is considerably different (particularly in the manner administered by the CIA) than, say, mutilation with electric drills, rape, splitting knees, or forcing a terrorist to watch his children suffer and die in order to try to elicit information from him. Waterboarding is a technique that has been routinely used in the training of some U.S. military personnel – and which the journalist Christopher Hitchens endured. I certainly wouldn’t want to undergo waterboarding – but while a very harsh technique, it is one that was applied in part because it would do far less damage to a person than other techniques. It is also surely relevant that waterboarding was not used randomly and promiscuously, but rather on three known terrorists. And of the thousands of unlawful combatants captured by the U.S., fewer than 100 were detained and questioned in the CIA program, according to Michael Hayden, President Bush’s last CIA director, and former Attorney General Michael Mukasey – and of those, fewer than one-third were subjected to any of the techniques discussed in the memos on enhanced interrogation."

    Article Morality And Enhanced Interrogation Techniques Commentary Magazine

    Good read.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #690
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,813

    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JUG View Post
    Absolutely. Then, they claim that the reason they released it is so the nation can admit their wrongs, and take accountability for what they've done. If you ask me, the nation's not who should be admitting their wrongs. It's the CIA. Ironically enough, they're still minimizing what has happened.
    The CIA, not an arm of the democratic party like the IRS, disagreed, in writing with the findings. They gave reasons for each.

    The Democratic party, the party of traitors and liars, Feinsteins and Grubers, did this to harm the nation. They succeeded.

Page 69 of 99 FirstFirst ... 1959676869707179 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •