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Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    No, I'm not joking about anything. You can give us your personal musings about what's moral and what's icky all day long, and it will say absolutely nothing about the only question that counts in this matter--whether any of the enhanced interrogation techniques violated any laws. In any case, I could just as easily question the morality of risking the lives of hundreds or thousands of innocent people, just so we wouldn't have to get rough with a few mass-murdering rats to make them tell us what they knew. It's clear you would have been content to let them get killed, while we dawdled and kept asking these bastards nicely to answer our questions.

    I think Professor Yoo's legal arguments are very persuasive. By implying he's an unethical liar, rather than presenting arguments to the contrary, you're inviting people to suspect you're just taking the cheap, easy way out because your game is weak. What's keeping you? Let's see what you've got. Using the knowledge of the law about torture you claim to have, please explain, in detail, citing specific cases and statutes, how any of the enhanced interrogation techniques violates any U.S. law against torture.

    You can't, because they don't.
    We're having a different conversation than you are, apparently. Whether it violates any law is the least of my concerns and is an appropriate discussion for the SCOTUS blog or something. As I said, and which is just obviously true, almost by definition a state sponsored act of evil or moral repugnance is often if not generally legal. I could cite a dozen examples from OUR history and so could you.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's not so much a name as a general characteristic of liberals. You may be a tough guy liberal physically but if you support liberalism in general then you will be thought of as a pussy. That's the opinions others will hold and you should just accept that and move on. That slotting happens to non-liberals who are called 'racist', misogynist, etc. as well but you'll probably be silent when that unfairness occurs. That's why the pussy label.
    This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Anyone who says "non-liberals" are racists is a moron. Moreover, guess what that makes someone who thinks all liberals are pussies because they have a conscience and the ability to use reason?

    Do you really believe the **** you write? That's some ill-informed nonsense, if so. You might want to take a look at that before you continue exposing your thoughts the world.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    As I said to your cohort (what's it feel like to be affiliated with a guy like j-mac), if you are so sure liberals are pussies, why not go to a rally full of liberals and yell it out? Head to one of those "I can't breath" rallies, wear a sign that says liberals are all pussies, and then report back to me and let me know how it worked out.

    It's easy for you to act tough on the Internet, guy. No one is impressed by you.
    You're the one that came in and acted all emotional about it, with your "are you calling me a pussy?" crap...I see that as usual that was bluster, and just dishonest crap as usual with you libs...Why don't you go pick daisies, and stroke your cats.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I don't really think it is his opinion. Torture is a word - it has a regular definition and a legal definition. By the dictionary definition, "enhanced interrogation" is certainly torture:

    Torture - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


    Under International Law it is clearly torture as well:
    APT - A legal definition of torture
    The 'legal definition' was submitted by John Yoo who is a professor at Berkeley Law School and scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. He served in the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel from 2001-03, where his work included reviewing the legality of CIA interrogation methods. Certainly his opinion should carry as much weight as any of the definitions you submitted. John Yoo: A torture report for the dustbin - NY Daily News

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's nothing more than your opinion on what is and isn't torture, and it's not shared by many with a lot more real world experience in it.

    And I'm really unclear on how and where one draws this imaginary line. The purpose of waterboarding is the same whether you label it torture or use the Orwellian term EIT. Technique is the same, the results are the same, the prisoner suffers the same pain, panic, etc. What you're saying is there is a line somewhere that is determinable about how many times or how long is 'torture' and how many times it's not-torture. Explain that line if you don't mind and how you draw it.

    It has to have something to do with the effects on the person, which would vary widely from person to person. But if you say that what was outlined in the legal brief and how it was used in practice is different, seems to me you're saying that if the technique doesn't have the intended effect - KSM was resistant and able to handle it better than expected - in the REAL WORLD, we just did it until it did have the intended effect. So where is the line? And why would I care where it was if we ignored the line when we needed to in order to get the desired effect. The line was just there for people to make themselves feel better about what we did.
    I realize that you say you do not know where the line is between torture and acceptable interrogation methods. That is certainly due to your never having earnestly thought about it but also to the fact that there is a continuum between asking questions over cake and coffee and withholding food and drink, while screaming at the captive for 78 hours on end. Just think about it for a while and try to free yourself of prejudice and presumption.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I edited it out, because people like you go running off to mommy and daddy over that ****....You saw it though so I accomplished my purpose....
    Another ill-informed generalization. I could be wrong, you'd have to ask a mod, but even though people like you hide behind the internet and call me a pussy, I don't think I've ever hit the "Report" button.

    I don't really give a **** what some hack thinks of me.
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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's not so much a name as a general characteristic of liberals. You may be a tough guy liberal physically but if you support liberalism in general then you will be thought of as a pussy. That's the opinions others will hold and you should just accept that and move on. That slotting happens to non-liberals who are called 'racist', misogynist, etc. as well but you'll probably be silent when that unfairness occurs. That's why the pussy label.
    Absolutely! WSS will never get that....He's too busy feeling slighted.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Another ill-informed generalization. I could be wrong, you'd have to ask a mod, but even though people like you hide behind the internet and call me a pussy, I don't think I've ever hit the "Report" button.

    I don't really give a **** what some hack thinks of me.
    Good, go away then.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Anyone who says "non-liberals" are racists is a moron. Moreover, guess what that makes someone who thinks all liberals are pussies because they have a conscience and the ability to use reason?

    Do you really believe the **** you write? That's some ill-informed nonsense, if so. You might want to take a look at that before you continue exposing your thoughts the world.
    You'll not get an emotional response from me with your immature outburst. I'm a man.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    "You won't mind if I don't believe you will you? I could not read a 6,000 page report in two days and I am pretty fast."
    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    I haven't read the full report as of yet but a good 500 pages in I've seen the CIA have used sleep deprivation, water boarding, refusing to treat injuries like open bullet wounds, rectal rehydration, and other torture methods that brought victims to the point of mental break. Believe me when I say, the report does not shy away from the details.
    Okay. Here is the allegation:

    Contrary to CIA representations to the Department of Justice, the CIA instructed personnel that the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah would take "precedence" over his medical care,^ resulting in the deterioration of a bullet wound Abu Zubaydah incurred during his capture. In at least two other cases, the CIA used its enhanced interrogation techniques despite warnings from CIA medical personnel that the techniques could exacerbate physical injuries.

    Here is some general rebuttal:

    5. (U//FOUO) The Study has all the appearances of an authoritative history of CIA's RDI effort. As Chairman Feinstein announced to the press the day it was approved by the Committee, its authors had access to 6 million pages of records-most provided by CIA-and they cite more than 35,000 footnotes. However, although the Study contains an impressive amount of detail, it fails in significant and consequential ways to correctly portray and analyze that detail. Simply put, the Study tells part of the story of CIA's experience with RDI, but there are too many flaws for it to stand as the official record of the program. Those flaws stem from two basic limitations on the authors:
    (U//FOUO) A methodology that relied exclusively on a review of documents with no opportunity to interview participants, owing to the Department of Justice investigation of the program; and
    (U//FOUO) An apparent lack of familiarity with some of the ways the Agency analyzes and uses intelligence.

    The Democrat staffers who wrote this hit piece interviewed none of the participants from the directors, nor the planners, no the interrogators. But they did interview the slip and fall lawyers for the unlawful combatants. The authors knew the anti-American slant they were going for and they got it. They also have no idea how intelligence is created in the real world. They quoted from documents but did not seek to gain any context. Had they been interested in lessons learned they would have done so.

    "Yes, whatever is in the report the treason is in releasing it. She intentionally damaged the United States and the Central Intelligence Agency. The damage is enormous and long lasting. She must be held accountable."
    That's not grounds to arrest Feinstein for treason, sorry to burst your bubble there, Mr.Republican. If we are to hold anyone accountable, it's the CIA agents who allowed the torture to take place.
    I believe it is. She has done more damage to the United States, by isolating the US, by demoralizing our allies, by giving substantial recruiting aid to the terrorists, including a likely increase in American Jihadists, as well as severely damaging the CIA in ways that will last for a few generations.

    We will continue to disagree over interrogations being torture.

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