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Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    We did not strip anyone of rights. They had none to start with.
    Just the point. One of the standard pieces of baloney peddled in anti-American propaganda is that Muslim jihadists captured abroad have rights under the Constitution of the U.S. just like any ordinary American citizens. In fact unlawful combatants captured on or near a battlefield have almost no rights. And the jihadists are unlawful combatants of the worst kind. Almost everything they do--e.g. sabotage, fighting out of uniform, purposely targeting civilians, using them as human shields, murdering them to terrorize others into submission, using children, retarded people, and people whose families would otherwise be killed as human bombs, torturing and murdering legitimate prisoners of war and completely innocent civilians, fighting of out hospitals, schools, churches, and inhabited dwellings, and so on, is a violation of the laws of war.

    Try those who are not killed outright in military tribunals, hang ever last damn one that is convicted, and televise the executions live around the world. We need to stop worrying about what they might do to us, and make them worry every day about what we are going to do to them. If it takes area bombing of cities where the sympathetic locals are tolerating or even harboring them, then so be it. I believe a lot of civilians in Muslim countries are sympathetic to these bastards, and they should be made to appreciate the consequences of siding with war criminals who are bent on destroying us.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Complete and total bullsh!t. What's Islamaphobic is when people use statistics from the worst Muslim countries to justify the bigotry of Muslims living in Western nations -- most of who are no worse than Christians.
    Really? How many Christians have committed honor killings in the US?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Americans overwhelmingly believe that "torture" is sometimes justified. In fact it was not even defined as 'torture', though the leftists prefer that word. The majority of the American people, bless 'em, are correct.
    Maybe some Americans have had enough of Democratic Grubering.

    We do need a trial though. Feinstein need to face justice.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Except they weren't all terrorists. Many were and are innocent. Like the six released this week after years.
    What does this mean? Does this mean they were not unlawful combatants?

    Why do so many of you believe this is a criminal justice issue? Fools treat war as a crime. An unlawful combatant should be tried, convicted and executed after it is clear he has nothing left to tell us.

    Or, if he cooperated he should be encouraged to remain in the general pool of detainees.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Please Google Mahar Arar, renditioned by the CIA to be sodomized and tortured for 2 years by America's buddies in Syria. His crime was having a name similar to a Palestinian.
    One person? And you failed to mention this?

    In December 1997, Arar moved with his family to Ottawa from Montreal and listed Abdullah Almalki as his "emergency contact" with his landlord. . . . Before Project A-O Canada was created, CSIS had been monitoring Almalki at least since 1998 with respect to his relationship with Ahmed Khadr, an Egyptian-born Canadian and alleged senior associate of Osama bin Laden. . . . While testifying at the Guantanamo military commission for alleged child soldier Omar Khadr, FBI agent Robert Fuller testified that Khadr had identified Maher Arar as among the al-Qaeda militants he met while in Afghanistan.

    Of course there is more to this story. Why did you omit so much?
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 12-12-14 at 09:34 PM.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    If I may interject.
    KSM was waterboarded 180+ times.
    If waterboarding is/was so effective at extracting info, what's up with all the repeat performances?
    It keeps the fear fresh.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You're just saying that if it involves national security, all criticism is off limits. That's ridiculous. It's not 'immoral' to disagree with your government on matters of war. It would be unconscionable to expect citizens to not question decisions with such horrific costs, which we know going in. People of high ethics, fully understanding the issues, WILL disagree, often strongly, and when they do they have an obligation to protest what they feel is wrong.




    We could post dueling opinion pieces all day, and yours is from an obviously right wing leaning outlet. But I'll take an early passage - 4th paragraph:



    First of all, that no republican signed off in this era is hardly surprising. 20 years ago it would be - not today when votes that break exactly along party lines are the norm. Second, anyone with the slightest interest in the report knows that the committee has been fighting and negotiating with the WH and CIA for a year or so about what can and what cannot be released, at least. So the committee did not 'sit on' the report for two years. That's just misleading to the point of a lie.

    Second, the author says several times the report is 'untrue' and 'highly biased' but doesn't provide details. What is biased about the findings? What part of the report, specifically, is untrue. I accept that there WILL BE honest and legitimate differences of opinion about whether it should have been released and what part of it blacked out, but that's just because we're thinking humans. That does not mean those who disagree are biased or that the report is.



    The side of the U.S.



    You avoided the point - questioning the government is the norm from conservatives on every issue except apparently the CIA on this subject.



    Again, not the point. If right wingers can't accept the line from the various people about Benghazi after many hearings, you can't then question my 'morality' when I do the same with the CIA on this issue, especially since on this issue the CIA has a documented history of lies and brazen attempts to hide information - hacking into the committee's computer to remove the Panetta report, which is the most comprehensive internal examination of the program, its successes and failures. If they have been honest, and the program's successes obvious, they should proudly hand over their internal review which supports all their assertions - why hide that from the investigators, then illegally attempt to remove that document? Something to hide, obviously....
    It is a partisan hatchet job that has damaged the US. Of course the usual suspects embrace it.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The point is that they're fighting and dying for their brothers in arms, their country, and and ideal. And torture is antithetical to all of them.

    Here's a thought experiment. Why did the propagandists in WWII try to convince their own troops that the enemy would abuse and torture prisoners; and why did those same propagandists try to convince enemy troops that they would be well treated as prisoners?
    It is as if you are not aware that there is a difference between unlawful combatants who have a right to a firing squad and troops of a nation's army who have the right to humane treatment once they can wage war no longer. If you want to become a prisoner of war then wear a uniform, have badges of rank and be integrated into a hierarchical organization.

    Once someone has been determined to be an unlawful combatant instead of a detainee all that is owed to them is an execution. We gave them a prayer rug and an enema.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    I thought it WAS an instant process.
    As in... "this guy knows where the nukes are, lets waterboard him"...
    Instead, it seems to be a time consuming process.
    By the time a KSM gives up any info, it would be obsolete.
    Terrorists would adjust their MO's when any of their leaders are captured.

    Again with the long process.
    What sort of actionable info do you think KSM would have stored in his brain that would be critical in the never-ending "War on Terror"
    Do you think he has intricate plots, Osama's phone number, addresses.....what exactly would he give up?
    Really? Do you really believe that the names of other people in their inner circle would become obsolete?

    Why are you stuck on actionable intelligence? What makes you think anyone believed that was likely? Nearly all information has to be analyzed to be converted into intelligence. This is not a made for prime time TV movie.

    Sometimes just the name of a person or place can be important. In the end this is the plot behind the movie that, in the end, kills Bin Laden.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The point is that they're fighting and dying for their brothers in arms, their country, and and ideal. And torture is antithetical to all of them.

    Here's a thought experiment. Why did the propagandists in WWII try to convince their own troops that the enemy would abuse and torture prisoners; and why did those same propagandists try to convince enemy troops that they would be well treated as prisoners?
    There was never any possibility that any US behavior would have the slightest effect on the terrorists' attitudes and/or actions.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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