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Thread: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

  1. #351
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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Oh, OK, we do it differently!! You should have mentioned it earlier, but if you don't mind can you explain the differences? I've read accounts and the basic process sounds identical - board, incline, restraints, towel, water, choking, can't breath, panic, etc. repeat as needed. Admittedly sometimes they'd strap the person to a ladder, and immerse their head in water, till they started choking, but the end result is or can be the same. Water into the lungs and stomach, can't breath, etc.

    And Truthful Cooperation Incentives is WAY too literal.

    If you don't know better, you can read "Enhanced Interrogation" and believe it's just new AND improved - interrogation enhanced! A better way to ask questions! Green walls versus white! Wood versus foam bottom! Nothing hints that it's interrogation, but with intense physical, or mental pain and anguish, and often a healthy dose of panic thrown in, intended to totally break hardened criminals and killers (i.e. torture!).
    It is an effective way to address an enemy who seeks martyrdom.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by d0gbreath View Post
    Good post. Speaking of 13 years, I'd like to shake the hands of our special forces soldiers that were submitted to these tactics for 13 years.
    I am pretty sure that our guys try not to get captured.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Rectal feeding and hydration are different things. Putting food in the rectum does nothing for the person.
    Medical doctor? Awesome.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So you have no actual moral issue with what ISIS does, their techniques. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
    I have a deep moral objection to their end purpose. Their tactics are a rational expression of their strengths and weaknesses. A moral evaluation of tactics is a useless exercise.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    So is Qatar, Kuwait, The UAE, and Bahrain. They also cut the Brits, French, Germans, Italians, Aussies, South American countries, then Chinese, and Russians in on oil deals thru backdoors.

    Looks like, business is really good for the Saud.
    Not with the price per barrel where it is.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The point is rectal FEEDING is torture/EIT or degradation or humiliation or punishment - take your pick. It's not a medical procedure or done for medical purposes. No solid food is digested in the large intestine.

    You left off the relevant portion of that quote: Where Rectal Feeding Came From and How the CIA Used It - Bloomberg

    If it was hydration, it was still almost surely done for degradation/humiliation, but still potentially (barely) plausible that the reason was medical purposes. Not so with solid food. It's simply NOT remotely plausible that's the procedure we would use if the person actually needed (for medical reasons) to be force fed.
    Either way I like the concept. Did it break the enemy down so he told us things we wanted to know or confirmed he did not know anything more?

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Is he a citizen of the USA?

    As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that says POWs need to be treated with any sort of rights/humanity/what-have-you is the geneva convention and the USA clearly can give two craps about the Geneva convention.

    IOW, does the USA even have to convict enemies of war? Can it not simply just do whatever to the enemy of the state? Unlike them, we have rights, but they don't, they're not part of the USA in any way.
    They are unlawful combatants. They are not protected by the Geneva Conventions. They are not prisoners of war in the classic sense as they did not wear uniforms, have badges of rank nor a country. They should be wrung dry of any useful information and then tried, convicted and executed.

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    It reminds me of how people had questions about Nazi Germany, and how normal people could have been coo opted into tolerating horrible things.

    One can really build a psychological wall when threatened that makes no logical sense to the outside world. And that's what I see happening with this whole torture thing.
    How many people died in the murder camps in Germany? Millions.
    Who were the victims? German citizens or the non-military citizens of conquered countries.

    How many people died while being made uncomfortable? Or or two.
    Who were the victims? Unlawful combatants.

    How is your sense of proportion doing?

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    So if they did use food, would you consider that torture?

    Because:

    "One CIA cable released in the report reveals that detainee Majid Khan was administered by enema his “‘lunch tray’ consisting of hummus, pasta with sauce, nuts and raisins was ‘pureed and rectally infused’”. One CIA officer’s email was in the report quoted as saying “we used the largest Ewal [sic] tube we had”."
    Did the unlawful combatant enjoy his lunch?
    Did he break his hunger strike or cooperate with his interrogators?

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    re: Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    No I'm not, we would have to rescue them, just like if we detained someone from Iran without trial they would have to rescue them.

    That's the extremely unfortunate reality, no matter what an international law says, the POW is ultimately at the mercy of the captor.
    An American citizen who is doing nothing wrong is not a prisoner of war. A POW is a uniformed member of a nation's armed forces engaged in combat against another nation who has been captured and is being held so they can wage war no longer.

    An unlawful detention is an international incident. It may be a provocation. It may be a cause for war. But the civilian is NOT a POW.

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